Is University Really Worth it?

[jade_lee]

Having a degree has opened many doors in my career path. I also hang mine on the wall. I value my university education enough to encourage my son to go. Each time I sit with my son and struggle with him to solve problems assigned him, I adore the fact that I can help him understand the material he needs to know in highschool. That smile on his face when he brings home his report card makes all the anxiety I experienced in university, all the expense, worth it.

 

[jb007]

depends on the career you want and your "luck". A good friend of mine never went to university, and is the youngest associate director (fx sales) in our bank ever. He is 23 making over 300k (bonus this yr was 200k). If you look at him it was def. much more rewarding to skip school. He was however extremely lucky; he was working in the sales department of the bank at 19as an intern already and his boss liked him very much. He is proud of this and always tells people 4yrs of real life work and experience crushes 4yrs of general university work. His pay, experience and real world contacts globably reinforce this.

Thats not to say its the path everyone should take, but it is one to consider if the circumstances are right

 

[syn]

depends on the career you want and your "luck". A good friend of mine never went to university, and is the youngest associate director (fx sales) in our bank ever. He is 23 making over 300k (bonus this yr was 200k). If you look at him it was def. much more rewarding to skip school. He was however extremely lucky; he was working in the sales department of the bank at 19as an intern already and his boss liked him very much. He is proud of this and always tells people 4yrs of real life work and experience crushes 4yrs of general university work. His pay, experience and real world contacts globably reinforce this.

Thats not to say its the path everyone should take, but it is one to consider if the circumstances are right

There are exceptions to every rule. Generally speaking, those with a post-secondary education make a lot more than those who finish with high school.

 

[afransen]

depends on the career you want and your "luck". A good friend of mine never went to university, and is the youngest associate director (fx sales) in our bank ever. He is 23 making over 300k (bonus this yr was 200k). If you look at him it was def. much more rewarding to skip school. He was however extremely lucky; he was working in the sales department of the bank at 19as an intern already and his boss liked him very much. He is proud of this and always tells people 4yrs of real life work and experience crushes 4yrs of general university work. His pay, experience and real world contacts globably reinforce this.

Thats not to say its the path everyone should take, but it is one to consider if the circumstances are right

I don't know... that industry tends to chew people up and spit them out. An education might have helped with whatever career he'll pursue after this one.

 

[jb007]

agreed. this friends experience is very rare. i have never heard of such a thing before; at least in this day and age. Such stories were somewhat more common in this industry in the 70-80s.

afransen - true. he and most people lacking a basic education qualification have no other career choice but the one they are in. lucky for him is he is in a very lucrative one.

anyway i support going to school as long as your studying something you are at least somewhat interested in so you are not wasting your money and time.

 

[spider]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the availability of fake diplomas covered in the Toronto papers last year. It seems all you have to do is order up a diploma from the school of your choice and you are good to go.

Several examples were given of people obtaining good jobs with these bogus credentials which is believable but doesn't the fact that the employers never noticed that the new employee lacked the skills presumed to accompany the diploma call into question the value of the education.

I guess the job market is only looking for that piece of paper.

 

[indense]

I got kicked out of Western.
A friend who actually graduated got me an entry level job in the giant corporation that he worked at (I might have fudged the truth about my education a little in the interview). Ten years later, I'm working for the same company in Tokyo making more money than I ever thought I would - even with a degree.
If that friend never got me in here I would probably be flipping burgers today.

Of course, if I get axed here in Tokyo, I couldn't even get a job flipping burgers.

 

[jade_lee]

http://adap2k.blogspot.com/2009/05/fake-diplomas-found-at-us-army-aviation.html

Busted!

 

[androiduk]

From a parents point of view (my girls are 4 & 5), I won't encourage my kids to go to University but I wouldn't try and discourage it if that's what they want. I'd much rather them get real world experience and exposure in as many fields as possible. When they leave home in about 15 years I'm guessing the world will be a much more accessible place. Cheaper, faster travel, less borders and a generally more affluent populace should make living and working anywhere in the world a lot easier and I think people who have global exposure will be at an advantage. My kids have already been to 10 countries and have lived in 3 0f them for more than 3 months. I'm hoping that when they hit their teens they will spend the summer in a different country every year working and experiencing different cultures. The $ aspect of things is a distant second in our family and I hope it rubs off on them. They should be a lot happier for it.

 

[Calbeee]

i still cant find a simple office job after graduating from last year
sigh, yet i sent about 150 resumes and they are edited differently each time depend on the job descriptions
have to work in crappy retail minimum wage jobs to keep food on the table

 

[jade_lee]

i still cant find a simple office job after graduating from last year
sigh, yet i sent about 150 resumes and they are edited differently each time depend on the job descriptions
have to work in crappy retail minimum wage jobs to keep food on the table

I experienced the same problem in the 80's.......youth certainly is wasted on the young.

 

[kEiThZ]

There's no doubt that a degree just is not worth what it was before. These days tradespeople and college graduates with practical job skills are more likely to well in the job market than liberal arts and science grads.

In all honesty, when it comes to the job market, university is only worthwhile if it's a professional programs, an applied program or one of the very few liberal arts and science programs that are directly transferable to the market (comp sci, math, geology, chemistry, etc.). Most liberal arts and science degrees are for your own betterment. They aren't going to get you easily marketable job skills (ie. those which are directly transferable from school to the workplace).

None of this means that it's not worthwhile to go to university. If you really want to learn something you should. But there should be a sense of realism as well. I am sick of hearing many of my friends who racked up huge OSAP bills earning degrees in history, poli sci, english lit, human biology, etc. complain about how they aren't doing well in the job market and how they deserve good jobs because they have degrees. That's where the problem lies. Everybody thinks that university is a get rich quick scheme for 20 somethings. There's very little realization about the difficulties of the job market and what it takes to prepare for and succeed in that market. Most only start to think about it after they graduate.

In sum, I caution anybody that asks me about it to think deeply about their goals. If you want to make money pick an academic path that has marketable skills. If you are passionate about learning then pick a program you like but do try and understand the consequences of your choice.

And if I had to do it all over again or when I have kids, I will strongly encourage that European tradition of a 'gap' year. In my experience, most folks who have taken that year to find themselves are significantly better off for it. They come out more mature and more focused. And their time spent living independently greatly contributes to more informed decision making.

 

[emacs]

university is a great place to establish networks; an internship helps plenty on getting a career shortly after graduation.

 

[jade_lee]

Stats Canada

Earnings and Incomes of Canadians Over the Past Quarter Century, 2006 Census: Earnings
Higher education: Gateway to higher earnings

The 2006 Census confirmed that higher education is a gateway to higher earnings, as did all previous censuses. For men and women of all ages, full-time full-year earners with a university degree earned substantially more than their counterparts who did not have a high school diploma.

Young men aged 25 to 34 who had a registered trades or apprenticeship received median earnings of $39,855. This was more than $8,000 higher than median earnings among their counterparts who did not have a high school diploma.

Young men in this age group who had a bachelor's degree had median earnings of $50,506, while those with a post-bachelor's degree had even higher median earnings, at $54,686.

Similarly, median earnings of young women with a bachelor's degree or a post-bachelor's degree surpassed those of their counterparts with no high school diploma by more than $20,000. Young women with a registered trades or apprenticeship earned about $3,800 more than young women with no high school diploma, whose median earnings amounted to $20,943.

The numbers above focus on full-time full-year earners and thus, do not take into account the fact that employment rates of less educated individuals are generally much lower than those of other individuals. As a result, they underestimate the earnings differences between highly educated workers and their less educated counterparts.

The 2006 Census also showed that disparities in earnings between individuals with no high school diploma and those with a bachelor's degree or more were, in absolute terms, even more pronounced among older workers.

For instance, median earnings of women aged 45 to 54 with a bachelor's degree or a post‑bachelor's degree surpassed those of their counterparts with no high school diploma by more than $30,000.

 

[syn]

That's a pretty extreme comparison. How about people with college degrees vs. those with university degrees? Or university grads vs highschool grads and college grads vs highschool grads?