Is university education becoming too common?

[Hipster Duck]

University students actually learn very little: study

Researchers analyzed transcripts and surveys of more than 3,000 full-time students on 29 campuses, and standardized tests that graded their critical thinking and writing skills.

Here were the main findings, based on a book called Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses: nearly half the students showed no big gains in learning - even after four years, one-third showed no more than marginal progress. They also spent 50 per cent less cracking the books compared to their peers decades ago.

Ironically, that study was done through a university.

I think some of this has to do with the fact that most 18 year-olds, and even many 22 year-olds, are generally not emotionally mature enough to take advantage of the kind of learning and benefits a university education can impart on you. Even when I was in my fourth year, I still thought of university as a career-advancement centre - like a glorified DeVry - more than the kind of place where I could learn to think critically, challenge hardened assumptions about the world and all in a place where I had almost no other responsibilities beyond going to class and keeping up with my studies.

I decided to go back to grad school after working for several years and having started a long-term, committed relationship. Only then was I able to squeeze out the resources of a university education and have a proper experience.

It's like the old line about youth being wasted on the young.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I decided to go back to grad school after working for several years and having started a long-term, committed relationship. Only then was I able to squeeze out the resources of a university education and have a proper experience.

It's like the old line about youth being wasted on the young.

Very true. I'll be 40 in a few months, and have been working full time for 15 years, my kids will be eight years old soon, and am now thinking of going to grad school, hopefully I can get my employer to help pay for it - but that'll mean a generic MBA, while my background is learning more towards a Masters In International Trade, done through distance learning, such as at http://www.schoolofpublicpolicy.sk.ca/programs/MIT.php

 

[NikoS]

Very true. I'll be 40 in a few months, and have been working full time for 15 years, my kids will be eight years old soon, and am now thinking of going to grad school, hopefully I can get my employer to help pay for it - but that'll mean a generic MBA, while my background is learning more towards a Masters In International Trade, done through distance learning, such as at http://www.schoolofpublicpolicy.sk.ca/programs/MIT.php

Ryerson offers subsidized MBAs so you don't have to spend like 80K...

 

[Eug]

I decided to go back to grad school after working for several years and having started a long-term, committed relationship. Only then was I able to squeeze out the resources of a university education and have a proper experience.

It's like the old line about youth being wasted on the young.

I got monetary support from the university to go back to grad school at about age 30, after I had already finished graduate level work in another field. I sat in class for less than a week before I realized there was no chance in hell I'd be able to do it, since I didn't have the same youthful vigor and drive I had when I was in my 20s. So I gave the university back the money and got a job instead.

 

[dom rem]

The question really is, are ALL subjects taught in university or college really necessary in landing a job???

 

[Admiral Beez]

The question really is, are ALL subjects taught in university or college really necessary in landing a job???

I’m encouraging my kids to pursue bachelors degrees from colleges instead of university, since they get co-op work experience and can pursue skills training in their fields of interest. I remember graduating from U of Ottawa in 1995 with my poly sci degree and wondering, now what? Then I went to college and studied international trade, and that’s my job today. But I could’ve skipped the University years altogether, going to college for a bachelors course in international trade and started working earlier.

 

[Towered]

Problem is the layers of bullshit in university education. I couldn't believe how many courses I was forced to take that I didn't want or need.

I should have gone to college instead.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Need to have a 5th year of secondary school (Grade 13). Then we will have to time (8 semesters) to learn about household finances (math), history, physical education, and other courses needed for life.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Need to have a 5th year of secondary school (Grade 13). Then we will have to time (8 semesters) to learn about household finances (math), history, physical education, and other courses needed for life.

You know WKLis, Harris got rid of Grade 13. We would have STILL had Grade 13 if it weren't for Harris, because you know how he was...

 

[W. K. Lis]

You know WKLis, Harris got rid of Grade 13. We would have STILL had Grade 13 if it weren't for Harris, because you know how he was...

The current Progressive Conservatives are not "progressive" any more. Being conservatives (lower-case "c"), they are anti-intellectual and anti-education. They don't want a "smarter" population, but a population who will follow their whims instead without questioning them.

 

[TheKingEast]

Problem is the layers of bullshit in university education. I couldn't believe how many courses I was forced to take that I didn't want or need.

I should have gone to college instead.

They need to make money. I wish I didn't have to waste time on all those BS electives.

 

[Jacob Lisgar]

Studied urban planning at Ryerson in the early 2000's. Apparently the program had poor graduate rates because it was too difficult. They dumbed it down and let anybody in to boost numbers. Some of the professors spent most their lives working there and were clueless, but no worries, with lower standards nobody noticed.
I found all of the pointless electives that are required to graduate a serious drain on time and money. I just wanted to get through the important stuff and get a job. Regardless, I entered a difficult job market and learned more in a year about planning working in commericial real estate. For some reason the planning school didin't feel like there was any point to teaching anything about real estate, money or finance. Anyhow, there were around 80 students a year graduating at that time. If you looked at job postings, there was only ever a handful that were actually geared towards planners. I am sure if anyone actually did some research, they would find that most planning students never work in the field. I am sure its the same with most programs. Too many students (it's a business) not enough jobs in specific fields.

 

[pman]

It’s hard to answer the thread question without agreement on what post-secondary education is for, and why our tax dollars fund it. The party line from pretty much every politician is that all post-secondary education is good because it provides students with hard and soft skills to enable them to get better jobs. It’s difficult to know what to make of that claim absent rigorous, disaggregated and comprehensive data on graduate outcomes by institution and field of study, but if those numbers exist I haven’t seen them. The debate mostly seems informed by the idea that on average people who have post-secondary degrees have better labour market outcomes than people who don’t, which isn't particularly helpful for letting us compare having our tax dollars spent on a PhD student in social justice education at OISE versus an undergrad in computer science at Waterloo.

I suspect there’s another reason politicians spend so much on the post-secondary sector without carefully limiting funding to programs with demonstrable economic benefit. It’s about recognition. Having a kid with a bachelor’s degree seems to confer pride on families (and voters), whether that degree is aerospace engineering at UofT or communications studies at Wilfred Laurier. Particularly for families where junior is the first to attend university, the whole point seems to be recognition and belonging.

I suspect we’re nuts to run so many kids through programs in the humanities and social sciences, but without a lot more micro-level data on program by program outcomes, I can’t prove governments are often wasting our money and kids’ time.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I suspect we’re nuts to run so many kids through programs in the humanities and social sciences, but without a lot more micro-level data on program by program outcomes, I can’t prove governments are often wasting our money and kids’ time.

I agree. And since the taxpayers of Ontario are footing most of the cost, I'd like to see a ROI on pushing kids through humanities and social sciences. It's not that I don't like those fields, heck if I was rich I'd quit my job and do a Masters in Military History just for kicks, but on my dime!

Our education dollars needs to be focused on results and be seen as a core part of the economic strategy for the province and country. If we don't need so many graduates from humanities and social sciences, then defund and reduce the allotment of those classes. If we need STEM graduates, then fund and expand that. Kids who can't get into STEM will need to find another path other than extending their childhood by staying in uni pursuing go no where degrees. For starters, let's fire up the apprentice programs in the trades, and stop treating our Tech schools in Toronto as dumps for underachievers, loser gangsta types and "Safe Schools" transfers of thugs.

 

[TheKingEast]

I agree. And since the taxpayers of Ontario are footing most of the cost, I'd like to see a ROI on pushing kids through humanities and social sciences. It's not that I don't like those fields, heck if I was rich I'd quit my job and do a Masters in Military History just for kicks, but on my dime!

Our education dollars needs to be focused on results and be seen as a core part of the economic strategy for the province and country. If we don't need so many graduates from humanities and social sciences, then defund and reduce the allotment of those classes. If we need STEM graduates, then fund and expand that. Kids who can't get into STEM will need to find another path other than extending their childhood by staying in uni pursuing go no where degrees. For starters, let's fire up the apprentice programs in the trades, and stop treating our Tech schools in Toronto as dumps for underachievers, loser gangsta types and "Safe Schools" transfers of thugs.

What?