Is university education becoming too common?

[lenaitch]

Back in the Jurassic Period when I went to school Grade 13 still existed. My Board had 3 programs: 2, 4 and 5 year. The five year program took you to Grade 13 which you needed to go to university. There was access to some but not many 'tech' options since you needed the higher end maths, sciences and other core subjects to graduate. The four year program was more geared to going directly into the work force or at least not going to university (community colleges/trade schools were in their infancy). The two year program had a very basic trade/skill orientation and was for students who had no desire to be in school at all; basically to keep them busy until they could legally leave. Our Board also had some 'vocational' schools which were probably like the 'tech' schools in the Toronto Board.
If anyone remembers Welcome Back Cotter, the 'two-years techies' were our sweathogs.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What?

My family of TDSB teachers and admin staff tell me that Toronto's tech schools are used as final resort of the safe schools policy, where they transfer violent or troublesome students away from their home schools and away from the victims of their activities. But this concentrates violent kids in all one place. Also, kids who are failing are also directed to tech schools.

We need to change this. Going to Central Tech should be a good thing and an opportunity to learn trade skills, on a path to apprenticeship and valued employment. Central Tech used to have an aircraft mechanic course and the teacher, my friend loved teaching the one or two kids who showed any interest.

 

[W. K. Lis]

With the requirement that EVERYONE have a Grade 12 education, we have ended up with classes with students who want to learn mixing with students who did not care about school. With college and university now optional, the students who really want to learn now don't get distracted.

 

[TheKingEast]

With the requirement that EVERYONE have a Grade 12 education, we have ended up with classes with students who want to learn mixing with students who did not care about school. With college and university now optional, the students who really want to learn now don't get distracted.

Some degrees should not be 4 years though. And some should not even exist. I like Quebec's approach with Cegep after highschool. From that point you can move on to either University or into the workforce. I hate to see kids misdirected and racking up student debt with a degree that doesn't translate into a well paying job. What we have in this country is highly educated workforce and not enough jobs for them. So we have overqualified people working low level jobs. We will keep losing talent to the US and abroad if we don't change things. This benefits companies immensely as they are getting top talent for low cost. It's a wonderful system. Works for the government, works for the schools, works for companies, works for banks. Not so much for the actual student.

STEM is the way to go.

 

[Bayer]

Some degrees should not be 4 years though. And some should not even exist. I like Quebec's approach with Cegep after highschool. From that point you can move on to either University or into the workforce. I hate to see kids misdirected and racking up student debt with a degree that doesn't translate into a well paying job. What we have in this country is highly educated workforce and not enough jobs for them. So we have overqualified people working low level jobs. We will keep losing talent to the US and abroad if we don't change things. This benefits companies immensely as they are getting top talent for low cost. It's a wonderful system. Works for the government, works for the schools, works for companies, works for banks. Not so much for the actual student.

STEM is the way to go.

Indeed, the advantage of Quebec's system is that you get one more year of (almost) free tuition compared to Ontario (Cegep is just a few hundreds of dollars a year), you're done with your general education before you start university, and when you do start, you are generally 19 so somewhat more mature, and your undergraduate program is specialized. I once had a friend with three BAs: philosophy, French literature and translation; it seems strange by Ontario standards, but those programs didn't overlap.

Not sure if it's still like this now, but in my time Cegep had two streams: a 2-year one leading to university, and the "professional" stream, which was generally 3 years instead of 2, after which you would enter the job market.

I agree that STEM is what the economy needs, but there is no point if it bores you to death; I remember my friends mocking me when I dumped science for arts and literature, but I make as much as an engineer and I do what I like!

 

[TheKingEast]

Indeed, the advantage of Quebec's system is that you get one more year of (almost) free tuition compared to Ontario (Cegep is just a few hundreds of dollars a year), you're done with your general education before you start university, and when you do start, you are generally 19 so somewhat more mature, and your undergraduate program is specialized. I once had a friend with three BAs: philosophy, French literature and translation; it seems strange by Ontario standards, but those programs didn't overlap.

Not sure if it's still like this now, but in my time Cegep had two streams: a 2-year one leading to university, and the "professional" stream, which was generally 3 years instead of 2, after which you would enter the job market.

I agree that STEM is what the economy needs, but there is no point if it bores you to death; I remember my friends mocking me when I dumped science for arts and literature, but I make as much as an engineer and I do what I like!

I think STEM just makes you more employable and opens more doors not just here but elsewhere. But I tell engineering and Comp SCi majors do not be afraid to go abroad. They will pay you. Canada not so much. Comp Sci major making $60K is ridiculous. But there are plenty of them around.

 

[TrickyRicky]

It’s a difficult subject because there are practical as well as cultural components to consider.

If you are looking at an idealistic pragmatic solution that emphasizes employment ( and I personally don’t necessarily believe university education should have anything to do with employment or employability) than I would kick 80% of students and programs out of university and into a college system with mandatory co-op.

There would be more emphasis on STEM as universal core subjects because these subjects are fundamental and yet I believe lower order to be taught to the young earlier. Higher order subjects like philosophy, management, psychology etc. Should be for the elite 20% in the remaining university placements and probably only offered at the masters level as secondary degrees.

 

[GamesBXdaily]

Absolutely.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Absolutely.

Absolutely what? The post above doesn't ask anything.

Sick of "Absolutely"

Is anyone else noticing that "absolutely" is replacing "yes" as the standard affirmative in conversation? Just yesterday, I was in line at Subway and the girl behind the counter asked someone in line if they wanted their sandwich toasted. The response; not "yes" but "absolutely". On...

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