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Darkstar416
Guest
Re: the Core will not Implode (sorry)
What is this exactly? Does it connect the bus terminal and the rail terminal?
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dashingdan
Guest
Re: the Core will not Implode (sorry)
IIRC, it connects the eastern side of Bay Street to the GO train tracks. It's on the same side as the bus terminal, but I don't know if it's made any new connections to it. I'd like to see it myself.
IIRC, it connects the eastern side of Bay Street to the GO train tracks. It's on the same side as the bus terminal, but I don't know if it's made any new connections to it. I'd like to see it myself.
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isaidsoTNR
Guest
Re: the Core will not Implode (sorry)
Seems like 20 years of neglect to public transit is finally going to blow up in our faces. The 'core' will only get denser and more crowded over the next 20 years.
More lanes of road is obviously not possible or desirable. We're just going to have to cope with mass congestion till the transit infrastructure is built. Toronto is massively under built when it comes to subway lines, but Adam Giambrone publicly stated that there is no money for subways.
True, but what is more accurate is that there is money, just not for transit. Toronto is many times wealthier than cities like Bangkok, Beijing, and Manila which are investing mutiple billions on subways. The difference is that transit is not a priority here. It is looked at as a frill by many, not an investment.
With the impending mess we are going to be faced with, transit will become a priority with voters when it takes them 2 hours to get home.
Too bad that alot of Torontonians have to go through 20 years of congestion because people had no foresight. I walk, so at least I won't have to suffer for other people's stupidity.
Seems like 20 years of neglect to public transit is finally going to blow up in our faces. The 'core' will only get denser and more crowded over the next 20 years.
More lanes of road is obviously not possible or desirable. We're just going to have to cope with mass congestion till the transit infrastructure is built. Toronto is massively under built when it comes to subway lines, but Adam Giambrone publicly stated that there is no money for subways.
True, but what is more accurate is that there is money, just not for transit. Toronto is many times wealthier than cities like Bangkok, Beijing, and Manila which are investing mutiple billions on subways. The difference is that transit is not a priority here. It is looked at as a frill by many, not an investment.
With the impending mess we are going to be faced with, transit will become a priority with voters when it takes them 2 hours to get home.
Too bad that alot of Torontonians have to go through 20 years of congestion because people had no foresight. I walk, so at least I won't have to suffer for other people's stupidity.
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Darkstar416
Guest
Re: the Core will not Implode (sorry)
So negative, but so true!
So negative, but so true!
Degnaw
New Member
Not really that true . . .
woot first VB post!!!
Toronto IS NOT many times wealthier than these cities, and many of those (Beijing especially) get most of the money from higher levels of government
What took up about half of Toronto's 2007 budget then?
woot first VB post!!!
JasonParis
Moderator
It may take up half the budget, but the larger question revolves around who should be paying for it? The city is simply picking-up much of the transit funding that has historically been paid for by Queen's Park. Whichever way you cut it, we aren't investing in transit to the amount that we historically did.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
First post on the new forum! Yikes...my post count...sigh...
Toronto is most definitely many times wealthier than all of those cities, by any measure. Many of them do receive support from other levels of government, but Canadian governments, unlike almost any lower level of government in the world, can levy exactly the same taxes as the federal government. There's absolutely no reason why Ontario couldn't build subways, if we were willing to allow the province to raise taxes slightly without there literally being movements to lynch the premier.
Toronto is most definitely many times wealthier than all of those cities, by any measure. Many of them do receive support from other levels of government, but Canadian governments, unlike almost any lower level of government in the world, can levy exactly the same taxes as the federal government. There's absolutely no reason why Ontario couldn't build subways, if we were willing to allow the province to raise taxes slightly without there literally being movements to lynch the premier.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Except that Ontario shouldn't be building subways - Toronto should. We get Sheppard and Spadina extension with the former paying the way.
AoD
AoD
Dan416
Senior Member
Do you mean the provincial governments? They just tax a percentage of personal income do they not? But they piggyback it on the federal portion because they're technically not supposed to tax income. IIRC anyway.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
What are you talking about? They have sales tax, income tax, alcohol tax, gas tax, etc, etc. Not supposed to tax income? Where did you read that nonsense?
Dan416
Senior Member
I mean according to the BNA Act of 1867, that the federal government is the only government allowed to tax income. That is the case to this day, I believe, with the federal government collecting the income tax on behalf of the provincial governments and then transferring it to them. Practically speaking, the provincial governments DO collect income taxes. They have a percentage that they tax. It's just a historical anachronism that they can't collect it themselves. Unless this has changed recently that I'm not aware.
JasonParis
Moderator
I think you are right. Mario Dumont recently mused during the QC election campaign that he'd try and work out a plan with Harper that would enable QC to collect it's own taxes and then send a cheque to the federal government for their portion.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
There's nothing in the BNA Act/Constitution Act that prevents provinces from taxing income. Quebec already collects its own income tax. Other provinces just take advantage of the CRA, making it much easier for people to file and saving administrative costs.
Dan416
Senior Member
For all intents and purposes, yes, the provinces do "collect" income tax. It's an historical anachronism that prevents them from technically collecting it themselves. It has to be collected by the federal government, and then given to the provinces. In the same way that a law can't be passed in Canada without royal assent. The lieutenants general and governor general have the power to stop any piece of legislation they like on behalf of the Queen. But they don't, because that'd be undemocratic. There's a written constitution and an unwritten constitution. I learned that in my ex's Canadian History or Government or something or other class at U of T (taught by Professor Wiseman, he often gets quoted in the newspapers or on TV).
I may not be describing it well, but it's like there's parts of the constitution that even though they're written, they're ignored or worked around. Like the Royal Assent. Like the Senate not really having any power. Like the provincial governments not actually being allowed to tax income.
This isn't really relevant though, cuz the provinces COULD just increase how much income they tax. Problem is, it wouldn't be a popular move, and unless Ottawa reduced it's portion, overall we'd be paying more taxes.
DTGeek
Active Member
Just because Toronto is wealthier than many of cities with large subway projects doesn't mean that we can afford the same amenities. Costs aren't the same everywhere. Construction in Toronto probably costs at least 5 times what it does in most of those other places.
If globalization gets to the point where we can bring over thousands of poor construction workers desperate for jobs from Bangladesh or China or the Phillipines, give them a shack to live in and pay them $1/hour, then we'll get subways galore. So write to your MP and ask them to allow us to import sweat shop workers and exploit them HERE instead of in their native countries!
Granted, because our economy is wealthier, the payoff on $1 invested in a subway here would likely be higher than the payoff for Manilla of $1 they invest in a subway there. But the returns should be diminishing with wealth, because wealthy people have more freedom to work around any infrastructure deficiencies (e.g. by building more offices in the suburbs, which is what's been happening in the GTA). At least that's my theory.
If globalization gets to the point where we can bring over thousands of poor construction workers desperate for jobs from Bangladesh or China or the Phillipines, give them a shack to live in and pay them $1/hour, then we'll get subways galore. So write to your MP and ask them to allow us to import sweat shop workers and exploit them HERE instead of in their native countries!
Granted, because our economy is wealthier, the payoff on $1 invested in a subway here would likely be higher than the payoff for Manilla of $1 they invest in a subway there. But the returns should be diminishing with wealth, because wealthy people have more freedom to work around any infrastructure deficiencies (e.g. by building more offices in the suburbs, which is what's been happening in the GTA). At least that's my theory.