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JohnnyStalenko
Guest
Why
Ape? Why exactly is it a dumb idea?
Ape? Why exactly is it a dumb idea?
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unimaginative2
Guest
Re: Why
Cars are not allowed to drive in the streetcar lane during rush hour. They are allowed to drive there during the rest of the day. That allows for on-street parking and reasonable circulation for most of the day, while permitting streetcars to avoid traffic when the it is most severe. Enforcing the current streetcar lane would have major benefits, and wouldn't eliminate on-street parking even when traffic isn't obstructing the streetcar.
Cars are not allowed to drive in the streetcar lane during rush hour. They are allowed to drive there during the rest of the day. That allows for on-street parking and reasonable circulation for most of the day, while permitting streetcars to avoid traffic when the it is most severe. Enforcing the current streetcar lane would have major benefits, and wouldn't eliminate on-street parking even when traffic isn't obstructing the streetcar.
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roch5220
Guest
Re: Why
oh, I see. but still, having a row is basically the same thing as having a well policed streetcar lane.
Also, I used to park on king on the weekends because I knew I could always get parking there on the weekends. I don't see how this would affect in a significant way the offpeak situation.
oh, I see. but still, having a row is basically the same thing as having a well policed streetcar lane.
Also, I used to park on king on the weekends because I knew I could always get parking there on the weekends. I don't see how this would affect in a significant way the offpeak situation.
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unimaginative2
Guest
Re: Why
The whole point of the ROW is that it will take up two of the four traffic lanes, 24 hours a day. Since that will leave only one lane in each direction for cars, parking will obviously be prohibited at all times. Well-enforced peak hour transit lanes, on the other hand, would prevent cars from obstructing the streetcar when traffic is heaviest and parking is already banned. At other times of day, parking could be permitted and the streetcar would operate in mixed traffic.
The whole point of the ROW is that it will take up two of the four traffic lanes, 24 hours a day. Since that will leave only one lane in each direction for cars, parking will obviously be prohibited at all times. Well-enforced peak hour transit lanes, on the other hand, would prevent cars from obstructing the streetcar when traffic is heaviest and parking is already banned. At other times of day, parking could be permitted and the streetcar would operate in mixed traffic.
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roch5220
Guest
Why Not
But what I am pointing out is that along King, going down to 2 lanes 24/7 isn't going to affect much. On the weekends, parking is not an issue. First off, its not like there is a shortage of parking in off peak hours on king, second, king in this area doesn't have the same issues (ie business) that bloor or st clair have in affecting streetlevel business. It will affect temporily parked courier etc. type services duing the the weekdays.
When I worked at Royal Trust Tower, I drove to work on the weekends (parked right outside on king). I see no issues with creating dedicated ROWs in the downtown core to improve rushhour reliabily of streetcars, especially when non-rushour traffic is pretty light, and one lane is suitable. On streets like Front, I would obviously disagree because if a car was turing, the pedestrian traffic is heavy (enough) at most times of the day where it would clog traffic. But on King when it is lighter, I see no problems. I can't remember if king allows turning, they might have to modify it so you can't during weekdays.
In addition, parking in off peak hours is pretty cheap. If 'one car lane' is good enough during rush hour, that it should be suitable for non-rushour.
But what I am pointing out is that along King, going down to 2 lanes 24/7 isn't going to affect much. On the weekends, parking is not an issue. First off, its not like there is a shortage of parking in off peak hours on king, second, king in this area doesn't have the same issues (ie business) that bloor or st clair have in affecting streetlevel business. It will affect temporily parked courier etc. type services duing the the weekdays.
When I worked at Royal Trust Tower, I drove to work on the weekends (parked right outside on king). I see no issues with creating dedicated ROWs in the downtown core to improve rushhour reliabily of streetcars, especially when non-rushour traffic is pretty light, and one lane is suitable. On streets like Front, I would obviously disagree because if a car was turing, the pedestrian traffic is heavy (enough) at most times of the day where it would clog traffic. But on King when it is lighter, I see no problems. I can't remember if king allows turning, they might have to modify it so you can't during weekdays.
In addition, parking in off peak hours is pretty cheap. If 'one car lane' is good enough during rush hour, that it should be suitable for non-rushour.
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unimaginative2
Guest
Re: Why Not
I don't think you're getting what I mean by a ROW. There are currently two lanes each way. A ROW would take one of those, physically separating it from the other lane, leaving only one lane for cars. That is currently the parking lane. If any car were to park, there would be zero lanes for cars. Therefore, no parking could be allowed on King.
I don't think you're getting what I mean by a ROW. There are currently two lanes each way. A ROW would take one of those, physically separating it from the other lane, leaving only one lane for cars. That is currently the parking lane. If any car were to park, there would be zero lanes for cars. Therefore, no parking could be allowed on King.
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roch5220
Guest
Re: Why Not
I know what you mean. And I think you are arguing a moo point. Removing parking is not going to be an issue because there is ample cheap parking in the underground parking lots (ie, 7-10 bucks for all day parking). What is in the core? Offices, more offices, a few hotels, and a handful of condos. Not exactly huge car trip generators to, or going through the core during off days. Its not like people are making quick stops along king in the core to do some shopping. I would bet money the majority of those parking along king during the weekends are lazy office workers like me who would prefer the convience to drive. During the weekdays, who are the ones idling on king? Courierrs, taxi/taxi stands, people idling in their cars waiting for other people to meet them (I have done this a lot) etc. But according to the 'street car lane' which this is the first I knew about, they shouldn't be there anyways during rushhour.
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I know what you mean. And I think you are arguing a moo point. Removing parking is not going to be an issue because there is ample cheap parking in the underground parking lots (ie, 7-10 bucks for all day parking). What is in the core? Offices, more offices, a few hotels, and a handful of condos. Not exactly huge car trip generators to, or going through the core during off days. Its not like people are making quick stops along king in the core to do some shopping. I would bet money the majority of those parking along king during the weekends are lazy office workers like me who would prefer the convience to drive. During the weekdays, who are the ones idling on king? Courierrs, taxi/taxi stands, people idling in their cars waiting for other people to meet them (I have done this a lot) etc. But according to the 'street car lane' which this is the first I knew about, they shouldn't be there anyways during rushhour.
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unimaginative2
Guest
Re: Why Not
Streetcar lane or not, there are no stopping regulations on King (as well as all the other major east-west arterials) during peak periods in the peak direction.
I'd like to know where you park, since I don't know of two many garages along King Street in the core where you can park all day for $7. People don't want to go into a garage for a quick trip to a shop. The complete elimination of on-street parking would be very detrimental to businesses. The vast majority of people parking on King Street are making trips to restaurants and shops lasting an hour or two at most. I live right by there and walk past all the time. I see them.
Streetcar lane or not, there are no stopping regulations on King (as well as all the other major east-west arterials) during peak periods in the peak direction.
I'd like to know where you park, since I don't know of two many garages along King Street in the core where you can park all day for $7. People don't want to go into a garage for a quick trip to a shop. The complete elimination of on-street parking would be very detrimental to businesses. The vast majority of people parking on King Street are making trips to restaurants and shops lasting an hour or two at most. I live right by there and walk past all the time. I see them.
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roch5220
Guest
Re: Why Not
www.torcon3.on.ca/services/parking.html
First CDN place actually went up $1, its 6 dollars, using the underground transient parking. Like I said, there is cheap allday parking. I used the higher amount to account for other areas in the core. Plus, for those frequently the few restaurants in the core, most have discounted/free parking affiliated with the restaurant. The parking is so cheap in the core, that I usually park there when my final destination isn't even the core. When I go to leaf games, or when I get my ass dragged out to eaton centre, etc. etc., I always park there.
www.torcon3.on.ca/services/parking.html
First CDN place actually went up $1, its 6 dollars, using the underground transient parking. Like I said, there is cheap allday parking. I used the higher amount to account for other areas in the core. Plus, for those frequently the few restaurants in the core, most have discounted/free parking affiliated with the restaurant. The parking is so cheap in the core, that I usually park there when my final destination isn't even the core. When I go to leaf games, or when I get my ass dragged out to eaton centre, etc. etc., I always park there.
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roch5220
Guest
Re: Why Not
Shop where? People are going to drive to shop at the PATH which is half closed, and are filled with repetitive chain stores that are available at any mall. Trust me, the PATH on the weekends is dead, it is busier the closer you get to the bay, but thats a stretch. I don't recall the Fabio's being all that busy when it was open, or people quickly rushing in to grap a quick slurpee.
Also, if parking was a big issue for downtown shopping, than explaining eaton centre's success if very hard.
People don't want to go into a garage for a quick trip to a shop.
Shop where? People are going to drive to shop at the PATH which is half closed, and are filled with repetitive chain stores that are available at any mall. Trust me, the PATH on the weekends is dead, it is busier the closer you get to the bay, but thats a stretch. I don't recall the Fabio's being all that busy when it was open, or people quickly rushing in to grap a quick slurpee.
Also, if parking was a big issue for downtown shopping, than explaining eaton centre's success if very hard.
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unimaginative2
Guest
Re: Why Not
I'm not talking about PATH. I'm not sure about the last time you were on King, but the whole street is lined with shops and particularly restaurants east of Yonge and west of University.
I'm not talking about PATH. I'm not sure about the last time you were on King, but the whole street is lined with shops and particularly restaurants east of Yonge and west of University.
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roch5220
Guest
Re: Why Not
Thats probably where the disconnect is. I am talking about the core (this thread), we are getting muddled between the entertainment district ROW proposal and this. Which is why we are both shaking our heads.
Thats probably where the disconnect is. I am talking about the core (this thread), we are getting muddled between the entertainment district ROW proposal and this. Which is why we are both shaking our heads.
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unimaginative2
Guest
Re: Why Not
Okay that makes some sense now. I still consider the area between Spadina and Church to be part of the core, though. I also don't think that a limited ROW (or streetcar lane) between University and Yonge will do anything to speed service. It's good that we're now on the same page!
Okay that makes some sense now. I still consider the area between Spadina and Church to be part of the core, though. I also don't think that a limited ROW (or streetcar lane) between University and Yonge will do anything to speed service. It's good that we're now on the same page!
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ummagumma66
Guest
the Core will not Implode (sorry)
I think the new Ultra LRT system will go along way in adressing the problems...
I think the new Ultra LRT system will go along way in adressing the problems...
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beaconer
Guest
Re: the Core will not Implode (sorry)
I noticed today that they have completed/opened the east GO Union pedestrian tunnel portion on Bay Street..
Looks nice and bright, painted white..
I noticed today that they have completed/opened the east GO Union pedestrian tunnel portion on Bay Street..
Looks nice and bright, painted white..