is racism common in Toronto?

[TrickyRicky]

"Preference based on racial traits is racism. Treating one person different from another based on their inherited race is racism. I don't like these "soft definitions"."

If we accept that level of standard or "hard definition", that positive bias or indirect or unintentional preference constitutes racism than Toronto and Canada are fundamentally racist. I suspect under such conditions you would find that somewhere between 9 out of 10 and 10 out of 10 people would practice racist behaviour. I personally do not accept this kind of "hard definition" because I don't think it helps or teaches us anything about how humans behave.

 

[EnviroTO]

Well it all depends on what this "preference" is for. If the "preference" is simply about what you find attractive then it is not an issue. If the "preference" is about who you want to employ, associate with, etc and it is solely a preference based on race then it is an issue of racism.

 

[nfitz]

What kind of question is that? Because it's different. Everything that is different will eventually become a cause for discrimination. If it's not skin color then it's religion. If it's not religion then it's the sect of your religion (Ireland, Iraq).

I just have no comprehension on why one would choose to buy into that.

Ireland BTW isn't about the sect of the religion ... that's a red herring; it's got more to do with the origin of the two groups ... one lived there, and the one with the other religion invaded the island, killed a whole lot of people, and then occupied the place for a few hundred years. The one religion could convert completely to the other religion for ... well ... religious reasons, and they'd still be killing each other. The Irish situation has very little to do with the authority of the Pope!

 

[syn]

Or you just kidding, or are you really this ignorant? Yes, blacks are more a victim of racism and prejudice than any other group in Canada. Why does this surprise everyone? No offense, but you people must be living under a rock.

No they aren't. It isn't even close; Native Canadians are far greater victims.

 

[Tewder]

... and yet I find it hard to view anybody or any group as 'victimized' in Canada today.

 

[jenny_zhang]

Ireland BTW isn't about the sect of the religion ... that's a red herring; it's got more to do with the origin of the two groups ..

Just add the following sentence: "If not religious reasons, then historical reasons."

 

[Tacoma]

... and yet I find it hard to view anybody or any group as 'victimized' in Canada today.

I haven't read the entire thread so don't know what has been said before but what do you mean by "victimized"? If you mean that you don't believe any group has been victims of racism, then there are ample studies, reports and surveys that point to the contrary.

There's the report from IPSOS/Reid in 2005 that clearly indicates racism is alive and well today.

There's the 2007 report from the Canadian Centre of Policy Alternatives that concludes "Racism persists in Canada, and it is impeding people of colour from entering the labour market at a pace—and place—commensurate with their skills."

There's a Racial Tolerance Report from Sun Media that clearly points to evidence of racism against particular groups.

There's a UofT study that finds racism / discrimination against visible minorities as report in the Toronto Star.

There's the York University study as report in the Star that people are far more tolerant of bigotry than they might express.

And I can go on... but in this brief search, I could not find one study that supports your view. I'm not saying that racism isn't better today than, say, in 1979, but we are far from where you seem to think we are and anyone who thinks just because there are more visible minorities today than yesterday and therefore racism/discrimination/prejudice against minority groups is licked needs to do a reality check.

 

[nfitz]

Just add the following sentence: "If not religious reasons, then historical reasons."

... fair enough ...

 

[Tewder]

I haven't read the entire thread so don't know what has been said before but what do you mean by "victimized"?

Tacoma, my comment might make more sense within the bigger context of what I've been saying all along in this thread. Much gets labeled as 'racism' when it really isn't. We can confuse xenophobia or distrust of differing cultural norms as racism when this isn't necessarily the case, and this ends up distorting the real issues and demonizing people who do not deserve it.

I of course understand that horrific and degrading individual instances of racism, homophobia and sexism occur all the time, and have experienced them myself but these are generally not systemic in Canada. We live in one of the most tolerant and respectful nations on the earth, if not *the* most. In this context I tend to feel that victimization occurs within in the sense that an ignorant individual may call me a fag but this says more about that person and not about me or the values of society. We can always do better of course but I also think that the hunt for 'racists' has become a bit of witch hunt for the bitter among us who are looking for scapegoats. Sometimes red curtains in the window are just a choice of colour...

 

[TrickyRicky]

Let me give some examples of preference or positive bias. Personally, I think the term racism should be limited to an overt act. This does not mean that preference or positive bias is acceptable or that it isn't a major force in marginalization or undue benefit. However, I think it fair to describe our society generally as not racist, tolerant but rife with preference and bias.

Examples:

-Being friends with or hanging out with people predominantly of one culture or background
-Dating and being in relationships with people predominantly of your own or one background or culture
-Hanging out with people at school or work with people predominantly from your similar background or culture
-Living in an area that is predominantly composed of people of your own background or culture
-Believing goods and services rendered by a specific group or culture are superior (example: German engineering, Italian Design, Japanese electronics etc.)

These are not trivial things and yet they are fundamental human behaviours. Our minds are hardwired to group like things and find connections in order to simplify our decision-making routines. The results however can have marginalizing impacts, like a minority who doesn't gel socially with the anglo-caucasian work-group so he fails to get promoted regardless of the merit of his work. But it can also have the opposite effect of positively impacting people, like the caucasion politician who gets elected by an ethnic minority electorate because he would be reasonably assumed to get things done easier in the caucasian dominated political system.

 

[isaidso]

I'd say it's more common than people think. I'd also say Canada is very far from being free of racism.

I agree. I rarely encounter it, but it has a lot to do with the company I keep. There will always be bigotry. Even groups that suffer from it, turn around and do it to other groups.

 

[Tewder]

I also find it interesting this conceipt that we view 'prejudice' as something others have or that other groups have. When we find ourselves saying this it is probably time to look a little closer and with a little more honesty at our own unconscious filters.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think we confuse discrimination with racism, since the latter has to be about fear or hatred of a person or people due to their race. For example, if you say all Muslims are bad, this is certainly an ignorant (in the true sense of the world, i.e. without knowledge) comment, but is not racist, since Muslim is no more a race than Catholic or Buddhist. Muslims came from all races, originating with Arabs, and now include people from world wide origins. Racism is definitely out there and within us in Canada, but we should acknowledge what racism is and is not.

 

[kettal]

Many and perhaps most on this board have secret racist feelings deep inside them.

Well there is a certain ethnic group who I truly feel are over represented in the bad-driver category. And there is another ethnic group who goes everywhere with mom, dad, 12 kids, and grandma in tow. If you ever work in customer service industry you will notice these little idiosyncrasies...

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I think we confuse discrimination with racism, since the latter has to be about fear or hatred of a person or people due to their race. For example, if you say all Muslims are bad, this is certainly an ignorant (in the true sense of the world, i.e. without knowledge) comment, but is not racist, since Muslim is no more a race than Catholic or Buddhist. Muslims came from all races, originating with Arabs, and now include people from world wide origins. Racism is definitely out there and within us in Canada, but we should acknowledge what racism is and is not.

but you got something wrong. there's no such thing as an arab race, white race, etc. the race is human. even ethnicity is a wrong way of categorizing human groups by geographic origin since an ethnicity is a group of people one identifies with. and even categorizing people based on national origin or geographic origin is not accurate since nations can change their borders or name. if you wanna pinpoint the origin of a human group and discover the route humanity has taken over distance and time, this is the way to go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup

evolutionary science and genetics is a great way to combat racism. it knows that there is more genetic difference between members of the same family than there is difference between haplogroups. if you were to compare what makes one person have light skin and another person have dark skin and other traits like hair, etc. the genetic code that makes these differences is far less. the genetic code differences between a father and daughter is much greater.

the idea of a white race or black race is an outdated concept that doesn't have any real credibility. amongst other things, it's "make believe".

and the fact that one haplogroup emerged before another and has been around longer doesn't make it less evolved or another more better. in evolution, there is no goal or distant target and things are not obligated to evolve just because time passes by. to say one haplogroup is better than another or more intelligent because it is the newest is like saying the latest haplogroup has hands but the earliest one doesn't have hands. i'm willing to bet our evolved differences are mostly cosmetic and for the purpose of adapting to surrounding environments. and because a haplogroup is the oldest one, that doesn't mean it has stopped evolving since its traceable marker came into being.