Is it time to do-away with gender-segregated washrooms?

[Admiral Beez]

just had one washroom and I must say it was odd using it knowing a woman was in the next stall. I had to check the door twice before I even went in after seeing a lady leave and got embarrassed thinking I was a weirdo.

In my experience using a toilet after a woman is often a nasty experience. My wife tells me that many women refuse to sit, so they squat on the loo and it goes everywhere.

Whereas using a toilet after a guy is usually cleaner, since it's a rarer occurrence for us. But that's just my experience, I imagine others have a different time of it.

 

[blixtex]

I say let the pee into the urinal too. If they can't do it cleanly, there's products out there to help. Of course it'll be annoying to carry around, but hey, that leads to more space savings with urinals.

 

[dom rem]

It comes down to this. in a public place the washrooms are there for 2 different genders,male and female, What happens when there is a 3rd gender? There absolutely should be a gender free or gender all washroom or else it wouldn't be fair.

 

[steveintoronto]

What happens when there is a 3rd gender?

Why stop at three? How about twenty? Then we can have twenty washrooms.

You failed to indicate whether these are communal or single washrooms.

 

[doady]

It comes down to this. in a public place the washrooms are there for 2 different genders,male and female, What happens when there is a 3rd gender? There absolutely should be a gender free or gender all washroom or else it wouldn't be fair.

Male vs. female is sex, not gender. Gender (man vs. woman) is a cultural distinction rather than biological. Therefore, there is already a grey area with gender to begin with. So no need for third gender, people just use the one they identify most closely with, no problem.

 

[dom rem]

Male vs. female is sex, not gender. Gender (man vs. woman) is a cultural distinction rather than biological. Therefore, there is already a grey area with gender to begin with. So no need for third gender, people just use the one they identify most closely with, no problem.

I understand there are more than 3 genders (or more than 3 sexes) because there are many variations of sexes/genders but still a male and female washroom only is not fair for the other sexes. There are many transgender women who have the 100% appearance of a female except for that one body part. They really are not men, they are mostly women with a male body part. For many of them their appearance is all female, all female appearances are not suppose to go into a man's washroom(unless they want to-haha just joking). Women with that female part would not want to go into a mans washroom but the other kind of women are suppose to?? There should be a gender free public washroom to solve this problem. Or to save huge amounts of money, maby they should transform all existing male/female public washrooms into gender free washrooms. When someone locks that door to do their business its no one else's business what gender they happen to be.,

 

[W. K. Lis]

Petition asks why Osgoode Hall’s cramped ‘Lady Barristers’ room has just 12 lockers, but the men get about 70

From link.

At the Ontario Court of Appeal at Osgoode Hall, there are only 12 lockers for female lawyers who must change into their robes before appearing in court.

There are about 70 lockers over on the men’s side, which has a lot more space and was once described in a legal publication as “opulent.”

“What it says is that ‘We think your numbers will continue to be limited,’” lawyer Lori Anne Thomas said of the cramped quarters in the women’s robing room. “It says ‘We don’t expect growth.’”

Yet numbers from the Law Society of Ontario, the province’s legal regulator, show that the profession is approaching a 50/50 split between male and female lawyers; about 57 per cent of lawyers are men and 43 per cent are women.

With that in mind, a Change.org petition that has already gathered more than 500 signatures is calling on the regulator to do something about the lack of space in the women’s robing room, which as recently as a few weeks ago was referred to as the “Lady Barristers” room on courthouse signs.

“Women in law account for approximately 50 per cent of practising lawyers in Ontario — there is no basis upon which they should be allocated this much less than the men in anything in the profession, let alone space,” says the petition, started by Toronto lawyer Breanna Needham.

“Retire the Lady Barristers robing room in favour of a unisex space where the men’s robing room currently is located that can be accessed and used by all lawyers appearing at the 130 Queen St. W. courthouse.”

A spokesperson for the law society said the regulator is looking into it.

“We appreciate the concerns outlined in the petition about the women’s robing room at Osgoode Hall and we are looking into options,” said spokeswoman Sue Tonkin. “We’ll provide an update as soon as we are able.”

Canadian lawyers are required to wear black robes when appearing in superior courts and courts of appeal, such as at Osgoode Hall, which houses both the Court of Appeal and Divisional Court. The robes typically include a waistcoat and two white tabs worn at the neck.

In a 2018 piece in Canadian Lawyer magazine on the barriers faced by women working in criminal law, the changing room for men at Osgoode Hall is described as something out of an “old-money golf and country club.”

“The male change rooms are opulent and spacious with nearly 70 full-length lockers, benches, several mirrors and a spacious bathroom area. There is also a comfortable lounge section with a sofa and a large wooden table and chairs for writing any last-minute notes before appearing in court,” the piece said.

On the women’s side, there are some small benches and floral-print furniture near the lockers, as well as a sitting room with a small desk and a bathroom.
“When you compare (the men’s side) to the woman’s, the women’s literally looks like leftover furniture from someone’s grandmother,” Thomas said.

The inside the robing room for female lawyers at Osgoode Hall.

Needham, who said she was encouraged by the law society’s response to her petition, told the Star she’s never had access to a locker due to lack of space.

“We are seeing more and more women in law, even all-female trial teams, so it’s becoming more and more of a problem to fit all of the women in there,” she said. “Although it’s not an intentional exclusion, it’s still a barrier.”

She said that ideally, there would be a communal space for networking and discussions at Osgoode Hall for all lawyers, in addition to private changing areas.

“It’s about more than just the space, it’s about access to informal mentoring, the conversations that go on in these robing rooms,” Needham said. “And our practice should be inclusive for non-binary individuals, LGBTQ lawyers, lawyers of all faiths and backgrounds, and these robing rooms — space issues aside — don’t address that.”

 

[PinkLucy]

Osgoode Hall is far from the only place like that!

 

[doady]

I understand there are more than 3 genders (or more than 3 sexes) because there are many variations of sexes/genders but still a male and female washroom only is not fair for the other sexes. There are many transgender women who have the 100% appearance of a female except for that one body part. They really are not men, they are mostly women with a male body part. For many of them their appearance is all female, all female appearances are not suppose to go into a man's washroom(unless they want to-haha just joking). Women with that female part would not want to go into a mans washroom but the other kind of women are suppose to?? There should be a gender free public washroom to solve this problem. Or to save huge amounts of money, maby they should transform all existing male/female public washrooms into gender free washrooms. When someone locks that door to do their business its no one else's business what gender they happen to be.,

There are no male/female washrooms. Male vs. female is sex, not gender. Public washrooms are currently separated by gender rather than sex. Gender differences are based on cultural interpretations to begin with. Therefore it is not necessary to have gender free washrooms just for transgender people. There is no conflict.

 

[dom rem]

There are no male/female washrooms. Male vs. female is sex, not gender. Public washrooms are currently separated by gender rather than sex. Gender differences are based on cultural interpretations to begin with. Therefore it is not necessary to have gender free washrooms just for transgender people. There is no conflict.

Which KIND of transgender washroom?? There are 2 kinds of transgenders. A woman with a male part (transwoman),. and a man with a female part (transman). If there are only 2 public washrooms a mans and a womans, where do the other 2 genders go? A woman with a male part will go to a womans washroom and a man with a female part will go to the mans washroom. I dont think female-women will want a man with a female part entering their washroom because he'll have the appearance of a man and how will they know for a fact if he has a female part?? The other question is, will transwomen and transmen (and a variation in between-some look more female, some more manly, etc) like to use the same 1 transgender washroom meant for ALL different transgenders, which means people who look exactly like men (and in between) will be entering a washroom where people look exactly like women.(and in between).

 

[PinkLucy]

They will go to the washroom they choose to go to. It's up to each individual to decide. This is why I prefer gender-free. Anyone can use it.

 

[dom rem]

Funny thing is every home in the world has a washroom for all members of the family or household (all genders) (which includes room mates, visitors and friends of the household), but this may not be so when its a public washroom.

 

[dom rem]

They will go to the washroom they choose to go to. It's up to each individual to decide. This is why I prefer gender-free. Anyone can use it.

I agree, I read online that those transgender women that look exactly like women have no problem at all going into womens washrooms, but it is those transgender women that are in between, they get the stares when going into a womans washroom because you could tell they are a mixed gender,(less feminine looking).

 

[Admiral Beez]

Which KIND of transgender washroom?? There are 2 kinds of transgenders. A woman with a male part (transwoman),. and a man with a female part (transman).

IDK, what’s a biological XY chromosome male who lops off his man part? Seems there’s more than two varieties.

As a kid growing up in 1970s and 80s suburban Toronto I’d never imagine the change society has undergone in gender speak and relations. My teenage kids today, thoroughly educated in today’s progressive verbiage and acceptance of our differences would be aghast at the schoolyard talk of my childhood and youth where fags, ladyboys, trannies, that’s so gay, etc, etc, let alone the racism and bullying. Thank goodness my parents moved us downtown and then I moved into downtown east where I was exposed to real people living different but valued lives. Back on toilets.... make them unisex, put urinal and a toilet in each stall, like portapotties have

 

[W. K. Lis]

Gender neutral washrooms...

From link.

Stalled?

From link.

From link.

Common with all designs: full-height stall doors and full-height side walls.