Intercity Bus Services

[Bordercollie]

That's true but then you could say that taking VIA is like rolling the dice. You may get there on time or arrive 3 hours late.

Most J trains have good one-time performance.
Going west although speeds are limited to 80mph on the dundas sub on the Chatham sub they can reach their full potential.
At least VIA owns and operates their own trains.

When you are flixbus and you contract out to intercity bus service inc and their driver doesn't feel like showing up or they are short on equipment then there isn't much you can do.

I'm sure that they have some provisions in place to prevent this but there is no guarantee.

Odds are bus companies are going to prioritize their own charters over contracted routes since they make more money that way.

At least with Megabus they own and operate their own runs with their own equipment so if there is an issue they can dispatch another bus. But if you ride Flixbus operated by InterCity Bus service inc and there is an issue, Flixbus needs to contact intercity bus Inc to dispatch another bus. Similar to booking through Expedia. It may be cheaper but you don't get the best service since you are lower on the totem pole.

 

[stevensontransit]

Megabus is extending its discount until the end of November for most mondays tuesdays and saturdays except for those days which lands on long weekends. Do you believe this will help boost up ridership for Megabus routes from Toronto to Ottawa, Montreal, Niagara Falls, and London and potentially setting stages for years to come?: https://ca.megabus.com/fall-sale?fb...f15j-VCDkKWFHCKCAw_aem_PgvSX_XnxvzIk6EMO9_Mnw

 

[reaperexpress]

Why hasn’t flixbus expanded from Toronto to Montreal and Quebec City? One staff says the Quebec corridor is heavily regulated that prevented flixbus from serving that corridor. Could Flixbus at least ask Quebec or file a permit to service Quebec?

Yes, the staff is correct. Quebec still has route regulations similar to what Ontario used to have. So competition against the current bus carriers (primarily Orléans Express and Maheux) is actively discouraged by the government. Hence why there are 6 companies competing between Toronto and Ottawa, but only 1 between Toronto and Montreal.

 

[ShonTron]

Yes, the staff is correct. Quebec still has route regulations similar to what Ontario used to have. So competition against the current bus carriers (primarily Orléans Express and Maheux) is actively discouraged by the government. Hence why there are 6 companies competing between Toronto and Ottawa, but only 1 between Toronto and Montreal.

It's really unfortunate, however, that there's nothing being done to fix the Quebec-New Brunswick gap. Maritime Bus isn't even allowed to enter Quebec anymore to connect with Orleans Express at Rimouski.

 

[Mihairokov]

It's really unfortunate, however, that there's nothing being done to fix the Quebec-New Brunswick gap. Maritime Bus isn't even allowed to enter Quebec anymore to connect with Orleans Express at Rimouski.

Really takes me back to when the bus transfer at Riviere-du-Loup was at 2AM and the waiting room was too small for all of the passengers transferring so some had to stand outside in the dead of winter. I think there was a Normandin across the parking lot but I can't remember if it was 24 hours at that time or not.

Anyway, it is definitely a big gap and one that needs filling. There's a market for NB<->QC, and definitely a market for Maritimes<->ON.

 

[stevensontransit]

Yes, the staff is correct. Quebec still has route regulations similar to what Ontario used to have. So competition against the current bus carriers (primarily Orléans Express and Maheux) is actively discouraged by the government. Hence why there are 6 companies competing between Toronto and Ottawa, but only 1 between Toronto and Montreal.

Sadly the government doesn’t seem to care that regulations discourages improvements to intercity bus experience and help attract new riders and tourism in Quebec. The only upside to Quebec regulated bus services is that Orléans express buses and reliability is actually pretty good. For some Canadians including me, owning a car is a luxury.

 

[Sauga89]

Really takes me back to when the bus transfer at Riviere-du-Loup was at 2AM and the waiting room was too small for all of the passengers transferring so some had to stand outside in the dead of winter. I think there was a Normandin across the parking lot but I can't remember if it was 24 hours at that time or not.

Anyway, it is definitely a big gap and one that needs filling. There's a market for NB<->QC, and definitely a market for Maritimes<->ON.

Technically, I think you could take the Orleans Express bus to Pointe-à-la-Croix, Quebec and then walk or Uber/taxi to the Campbellton stop of the Maritime Bus. There would be a 14 hour layover though.

 

[stevensontransit]

Technically, I think you could take the Orleans Express bus to Pointe-à-la-Croix, Quebec and then walk or Uber/taxi to the Campbellton stop of the Maritime Bus. There would be a 14 hour layover though.

Yeah that’s not how intercity coaches attracts riders from Quebec to New Brunswick.

 

[nfitz]

How does this fit in with the bit in the Constitution about inter-provincial transportation being federal responsibility not provincial. Perhaps a challenge in the middle of nowhere, but I'd think that for Ottawa-Montreal or Toronto-Montreal, they shouldn't have to worry about Quebec trade barriers if they just ran non-stop or drop-off only after they cross the border into Quebec.

 

[dowlingm]

For purely intra-provincial routes, or the operation of crew/maintenance depots, I can understand some measure of provincial jurisdiction. But QC should not be able to forbid or hinder transportation routes that originate outside the province for buses if they are not allowed to do so for rail or air. If this is correct, it is another way that Canada appears more restrictive between provinces than the EU is between sovereign nations...

 

[lenaitch]

How does this fit in with the bit in the Constitution about inter-provincial transportation being federal responsibility not provincial. Perhaps a challenge in the middle of nowhere, but I'd think that for Ottawa-Montreal or Toronto-Montreal, they shouldn't have to worry about Quebec trade barriers if they just ran non-stop or drop-off only after they cross the border into Quebec.

I suppose anybody who wanted to provide interprovincial service would have to go through whatever process to be a federally-regulated carrier. I can only assume that the federal government would consult with the affected provinces to see if they had any comments.

In true Canadian fashion, it's a messy area. OC Transpo (which runs into Gatineau) is not on any list that I can find that shows it as a federally regulated employer, but all sorts of sites, an a couple of court rulings, say that it is, but a 1991 Info & Privacy Commission ruling said that it was subject to Ontario FOI laws. Go figure.

I don't think this can be tied in with interprovincial trade barriers which have been all the rage lately. I think this is more a matter of needing a company to determine that it is a viable business model to pursue.

 

[nfitz]

I don't think this can be tied in with interprovincial trade barriers which have been all the rage lately. I think this is more a matter of needing a company to determine that it is a viable business model to pursue.

The feds did say they have now eliminated all the federal barriers to international trade. Perhaps someone should simply start operating with their existing Ontario registration and see if the feds put a barrier up to their operation! If Quebec challenges them, then they'd easily get an injunction to continue operations while it's in the courts.

 

[Sauga89]

I found what I believe are the relevant passages in the federal Motor Vehicle Transport Act.

4 Where in any province a licence is, by the law of the province, required for the operation of a local bus undertaking, no person shall operate an extra-provincial bus undertaking in that province except under and in accordance with a licence issued under the authority of this Act.

5 The provincial authority in each province may, in its discretion, issue a licence to a person to operate an extra-provincial bus undertaking in the province on the like terms and conditions and in the like manner as if the extra-provincial bus undertaking were a local bus undertaking.

• 8 (1) The provincial authority in each province may, subject to the regulations, issue a safety fitness certificate to a person or body to operate an extra-provincial motor carrier undertaking, and may revoke any certificate so issued.
• Marginal note:Certificate valid throughout Canada
  (2) A safety fitness certificate issued under subsection (1) is valid throughout Canada.

 

[reaperexpress]

For purely intra-provincial routes, or the operation of crew/maintenance depots, I can understand some measure of provincial jurisdiction. But QC should not be able to forbid or hinder transportation routes that originate outside the province for buses if they are not allowed to do so for rail or air. If this is correct, it is another way that Canada appears more restrictive between provinces than the EU is between sovereign nations...

Technically Quebec isn't forbidding routes that originate outside the province, they just require those routes to get the same permits as operators within Quebec - which the Province generally doesn't grant if there's already an operator on the route. In practice they're definitely hindering the interpovincial travel, but it would be quite difficult to challenge them on it because any kind of permit is inherently a hindrance and there are plenty of other permits they require regardless as the road authority.

It's really unfortunate, however, that there's nothing being done to fix the Quebec-New Brunswick gap. Maritime Bus isn't even allowed to enter Quebec anymore to connect with Orleans Express at Rimouski.

Do we know why Maritime Bus lost their permit to operate in Québec? I don't imagine Quebec actually revoked it, since there's no Québecois carrier running that route anyway. Crossing provincial borders isn't otherwise an issue for them - they operate in NB, NS and PEI.

I wonder if it's just lack of initiative - Maritime Bus figures that the number of passengers they'd gain by connecting to the rest of Canada isn't worth the operating cost of driving between Edmunston and Rivière-du-Loup

 

[stevensontransit]

Technically Quebec isn't forbidding routes that originate outside the province, they just require those routes to get the same permits as operators within Quebec - which the Province generally doesn't grant if there's already an operator on the route. In practice they're definitely hindering the interpovincial travel, but it would be quite difficult to challenge them on it because any kind of permit is inherently a hindrance and there are plenty of other permits they require regardless as the road authority.


Do we know why Maritime Bus lost their permit to operate in Québec? I don't imagine Quebec actually revoked it, since there's no Québecois carrier running that route anyway. Crossing provincial borders isn't otherwise an issue for them - they operate in NB, NS and PEI.

I wonder if it's just lack of initiative - they figure that the number of passengers they gain by connecting to the rest of Canada isn't worth the operating cost of driving between Edmunston and Rivière-du-Loup

So could orleans express or flixbus just file a permit to the Quebec transport government if they want to provide service from Toronto to Montreal and Quebec City?