Intercity Bus Services

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Wow - our expectations for striking conversation about public transport in Ontario were pretty low. The new maps, history, corrections, questions, and clarifications generated here within a few days were what we were foreseeing over about a month!

We have explained the mapping decisions we made in this post: https://dudewheresmybusmap.wordpress.com/2017/03/03/map-1-0/

We should get to the unanswered questions and suggestions soon enough.

 

[Garuda]

Looking at this map makes me think that a Barrie - Ottawa Bus Service would be feasible. Considering the amount of bus service that already serves Barrie and the amount of students who attend school in Ottawa - this could be a viable service, providing relief to having transfer in Toronto.

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Should GO Bus routes be considered on a map like this, now that GO services some long distance routes like Peterborough, Barrie, Kitchener, Brantford, St. Catharines and Niagara?

I realize now in seeing this comment that what we are doing mismatches the thread’s title for two reasons:

1. Our goal was not comprehensiveness, but instead to present services that have no maps (or shockingly bad ones) and are absent from network wayfinding tools (e.g., GoogleTransit).

Although GO transit maps are confusing, they are at least in existence. And there has been a citizen-driven initiative to make a ones, even if only temporarily active.

Ontario Northland also serves Huntsville with several trips a day. ONTC isn't yet on this map.

We approached Ontario Northland in the same way as GO (although their maps do a better job of representing the simpler ONTC network)

2. Our focus on buses is coincidental, rather than intentional. Our real interest is public transport. If a comprehensive map, we would incorporate VIA and GO train services as well. But hey, we’ll likely leave that up to other people. Thumbs up to APTA-2048 for the schematics. Ditto to reaperexpress for making that map in October that I just noticed today, and see includes railways. Shout out to Quebec for doing the obvious and professionally producing the same thing that we’re scrapping together in our spare time.

Thumbs down to Ontari-ari-ari-o for its neglect in making this information available. We also remain baffled that the operating companies don’t do this themselves.

 

[steveintoronto]

I realize now in seeing this comment that what we are doing mismatches the thread’s title for two reasons:
[...]
Thumbs down to Ontari-ari-ari-o for its neglect in making this information available. We also remain baffled that the operating companies don’t do this themselves.

Have you considered approaching the province to see if they might be interested in funding such an undertaking? Just a thought.

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Have you considered approaching the province to see if they might be interested in funding such an undertaking? Just a thought.

Not yet. I would like to have some discussion and allies behind the issue first. Now that we have some public dialogue, I'm willing to entertain suggestions as to how to approach the Province. None of us benefit from a private email thread with a polite reply from someone at the MTO saying that they're looking into the issue.

 

[steveintoronto]

Not yet. I would like to have some discussion and allies behind the issue first. Now that we have some public dialogue, I'm willing to entertain suggestions as to how to approach the Province. None of us benefit from a private email thread with a polite reply from someone at the MTO saying that they're looking into the issue.

Point very well taken. It's a bit like throwing a pebble at the CN Tower to try and knock it over.

It might be too easy for me to suggest this, but have you considered doing two maps? One completely comprehensive including GO and VIA, and one without, even just for proposal purposes? I see value in the inclusive one, but the detail might obscure the ability of the lesser one to show what it needs to.

If I were looking to get from say, Welland to Pembroke, I'd look for whatever combination of modes got me there the best. I'd consider more than just buses. But that perhaps complicates your challenge?

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Very nice! One note - the greyhound route into Sudbury serves the Four Corners as well - Paris St just south of Regent. It then continues to head south on Paris, a right onto Brady and that brings them to the terminal.

Thanks for the feedback and for this tip. I get the impression that we have the right location of the terminal, but guessed the wrong pathway for the Greyhound buses from Toronto. I have changed the routing, but am not sure that I have it right: how do the buses stop to the south of Regent? Did you mean north every time you mentioned south? Have a look at the revised map and please let me know!

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Point very well taken. It's a bit like throwing a pebble at the CN Tower to try and knock it over.

It might be too easy for me to suggest this, but have you considered doing two maps? One completely comprehensive including GO and VIA, and one without, even just for proposal purposes? I see value in the inclusive one, but the detail might obscure the ability of the lesser one to show what it needs to.

If I were looking to get from say, Welland to Pembroke, I'd look for whatever combination of modes got me there the best. I'd consider more than just buses. But that perhaps complicates your challenge?

Don’t worry – we are on the same page, so suggest away.

A truly comprehensive map, that was still legible, would be a tricky undertaking. T.O.Fanatic and I made an agreement to “slow burn” this issue, devoting small blocks of time, over time. And neither of us are particularly proficient mappers. A two map project might take us 6 months and not even be that good at the end of the day.

What we are committed to doing is to dig up some info, comment on usability, contribute to advocacy, and generally keep the issue on the table to push for improvement. It seems COMPLETELY reasonable to me that Wellanders, Pembrokites, and all Ontarians from similarily sized communities could easily find out how to travel between any two such points.

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Have you considered including "short-bus" services too? I've used these guys a couple times; about half their passengers are going from some random town to another random town.
http://www.greybruceairbus.com/airport

This is a great pickup - essentially the same arrangement as RobertQ Airbus running from Sarnia to London. The fares are high but...it meets all the definitions of what we were looking for; adding it to the map right now.

 

[Kitsune]

Thanks for the feedback and for this tip. I get the impression that we have the right location of the terminal, but guessed the wrong pathway for the Greyhound buses from Toronto. I have changed the routing, but am not sure that I have it right: how do the buses stop to the south of Regent? Did you mean north every time you mentioned south? Have a look at the revised map and please let me know!

You have it right now. The stop is a normal side of the road city bus stop. No idea why they still stop there since they moved the Terminal.

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Have you considered including "short-bus" services too? I've used these guys a couple times; about half their passengers are going from some random town to another random town.
http://www.greybruceairbus.com/airport

The fares are high but...it meets all the definitions of what we were looking for; adding it to the map right now.

I have added GB Airbus to the map. There are a few aspects that confuse me: that there is "a branch" through Markdale and another through Durham.

Also, nearly half the stops identified on their 2016 schedule are at locations that do not exist on GoogleMaps (according to their name). I was unfortunately sucked in to looking for the "Kincardine Kwik Way Variety" on a suburban-style street for a half hour over a bad internet connection. A smarter individual would have given up after 2 minutes.

The point is that this addition would be well-served by someone going through and confirming (or correcting) the stop locations. It is also an anomaly of earlier decisions we made that GB Airbus blasts out of the map as high frequency service. If I'm seeing the schedule correctly, it runs 4x/day, 7 days/week.

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Looks good! Really didn't know Dorset had bus service. The location of it is in the incorrect location however, it's located East of Bracebridge, not south-west. it would be somewhere above the second b in "Bracebridge" on the map.

Thanks for that heads up. I'm having trouble placing the mistake and the improvement. The second "b" in Bracebridge is, for me, at the location of the Ecclestone Drive Bridge (named Hwy 16 on Google Maps). Could you please give the precise name of the mistaken stop/station and confirm or refute if I have identified a correct location for something?

 

[rbt]

I have added GB Airbus to the map. There are a few aspects that confuse me: that there is "a branch" through Markdale and another through Durham.

Also, nearly half the stops identified on their 2016 schedule are at locations that do not exist on GoogleMaps (according to their name). I was unfortunately sucked in to looking for the "Kincardine Kwik Way Variety" on a suburban-style street for a half hour over a bad internet connection. A smarter individual would have given up after 2 minutes.

Both the CanAr Coach and GB Airbus stop at that parking lot downtown behind the minimall (not Queen Street, the unnamed white-line east of that).

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.1759...=58.96998&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656

 

[amnesiajune]

Why isn't Ontario Northland on there? They operate an Ottawa-North Bay-Sudbury bus, a Highway 11 Toronto-North Bay-Hearst bus, and a Highway 400/69/144/655/11 Toronto-Sudbury-Hearst bus.

 

[Lernd2LuvTO]

Both the CanAr Coach and GB Airbus stop at that parking lot downtown behind the minimall (not Queen Street, the unnamed white-line east of that).

Thanks! FantasticT.O. had the right location for CanAr, but I was thrown off by the "171 Queen" address on the schedule. I presume that the bus starts here before going to the Kincardine Holiday Inn (when Tornoto airport bound); please let me know if I have it backwards.