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Insufficient Sidewalks Downtown

Whoaccio said:
Is that really necessary? St. George does have a lot of foot traffic but it has quite accommodating sidewalks as it is. I've never felt like there isn't enough room. Is there still talk of pedestrianizing Gould St? That would probably make more sense.

I've also got to ask, when people talk about "pedestrianizing" what exactly do they mean? I've always thought pedestrian streets were a bit week when all they were were normal streets closed down to cars. Whats the point? Even in Europe these things are pretty pointless. If we ever do get around to it, they should be designed as more of a public space than a road. So, trees that don't look like they have FAS, benches (and not the technocratic anti-homeless benches, either), public art and restaurant/cafe/bar space. And some kind of surface more appealing than asphalt (but not cobblestones, they may look pretty but they are awful to walk/bike/stand on).
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Why would it not make sense? It's an urban beautification scheme that makes walking more comfortable with the extra space. St. George has the pedestrian activity so it wouldn't look empty, a majority users who don't drive, and built form with few parking lots. It's also a minor street whose closure to vehicular traffic wouldn't be that significant.
 
St George isn't as "minor" as it may seem--if you want "minor" (and perhaps even worthy of pedestrianizing) in this part of town, Huron's more of an exemplar. And besides, St George's 90s renovation was already intended in a "traffic calming" spirit--to eliminate the cars altogether would IMO cutesily sterilize it, not humanize it...
 
As far as Gould goes, I'd only start with closing the section between Victoria and Bond - then perhaps from Bond to Church.

St. George - seriously? There's no retail, no pubs, no restaurants, just a mish-mash of academic buildings. Doesn't need pedestrianizing.
 
misterf said:
yonge should definitely have wider sidewalks but it's not a good candidate for pedestrianizing. I'd even be skeptical of queen. Start thinking about pedestrianizing or woonerfing yorkville, kensington market, or john st and you'd be on the right track.
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junctionist said:
in reality, i don't think that there's any need for pedestrianizing any street in toronto. It's an enhancement.
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qft

I am agreed that the purpose is to create a people place not a pedestrian thoroughfare. The above locations are already a public draw. St George is mainly used to get to Bloor or College and there is little to attract people to either intersection.

I also think that allowing traffic of delivery and service vehicles during early morning hours would benifit the business community.

These locations could be woonerfed (sounds Seuss like) this summer if there was the political will. I expect that there will be more talk of it here than anywhere near City Hall in the near future.
 
I think that in the end, the best type of urban street is one in which there's a balance between all modes of transportation. St. George is a great example as it balances cars, bikes, and pedestrians. College is another good example because it has wide sidewalks, and is a local enough thoroughfare that traffic is light, flows well, and the streetcars move along quickly.
 
Chuck said:
I think that in the end, the best type of urban street is one in which there's a balance between all modes of transportation. St. George is a great example as it balances cars, bikes, and pedestrians. College is another good example because it has wide sidewalks, and is a local enough thoroughfare that traffic is light, flows well, and the streetcars move along quickly.
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That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there. I'd agree that streets like Yonge and College are best with cars. But not all of them are - each street and neighbourhood has its own needs.
 
confusion said:
Maybe in the entire city, but pretty sure this thread is focused on the downtown core. We're talking about 10% here in the summer.
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I should have been more clear about where I got my numbers. They're from the 2001 Transportation Tomorrow Survey for an area bounded generally by Lake Ontario, Bathurst, Queen, and Yonge. The survey is done between July and October. The morning inbound mode splits into downtown were as follows:

By Car – 23%
By Transit – 72%
Walk – 4%
Cycle – 0.66%
 
I don't think pedestrian malls are necessarily a good idea - having some degree of vehicular presence, like Chuck already said, helps to ensure vibrancy of a street. Personally, I think Woonerfing Yonge south of Bloor is a good idea - though I can see potential problems arising from our winters if it isn't handled well.

Another point to consider is that we should start to think about using our streets more intelligently, esp. through the course of a day and week. Like weekly street closures - all you need is some removable bollards.

AoD
 
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I saw this picture, and I immediately thought of the empty centre lane on Bay. Off topic, but does anyone else think a middle bike lane on Bay could work? Likely not enough space though.

picture posted by smuncky:
2010215783_south-east-down-9th-528x308.jpg
 
You'll all have to excuse my ignorance but if I don't find out what a woonerf is really soon, I'm gonna cry. :)
 
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