junctionist
Senior Member
He deserves a Key to the City.
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gei
Active Member
Is it just me or is that the stupidest site ever? Why do those people care so much about "illegal" signs???
junctionist
Senior Member
Why would they not care? Illegal advertising can lead to many problems, including excessive distractions for drivers and pedestrians, the clearing of green space and trees to install billboards, and installing billboards on historic facades, causing permanent damage. Clearly regulation is needed in outdoor advertising and the city is not enforcing its regulations, so some one invests a lot of time detailing the illegal advertising so it doesn't get out of hand.
grey
Senior Member
I agree with their position in some cases, but for a lot of the signs they're complaining about on that site, they take a purely legalistic and annoyingly robotic stance with zero regard for artistic merit (refer especially to the complaints about 3D signs, many of which are/were super awesome and cool). Who made these people the sign police?
ShonTron
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Artistic merit? Just about all the signs mentioned on that site are illegal billboards and fascia wraps.
shilly
Active Member
Other than removing ads for blocking traffic signs, I say leave them up. I like looking at the ads, even if it makes me a tool.
DSC
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A tool or maybe a fool! Do you really like to see heritage buildings wrapped in plastic or disfigured with fixed signs? Do you really want to see signs EVERYWHERE?
The City of Toronto does allow signs and what Rami Tabello and the folks at Illegal Signs have done is to force the City to enforce its own by-laws and, finally, draw up a new draft by-law. This is under discussion now and will, one hopes, be easier to understand and enforce. Personally, I have no problem with commercial signage IN ITS PLACE but really do not want to see ads everywhere. I say "Thanks, Illegalsigns.ca"!
ProjectEnd
Superstar
I completely agree. Why can't the city change the laws against 3D signage and work together with advertisers to create advertising which is engaging and fun. What Illegal Signs doesn't seem to understand is that there will always be advertising so why not force advertisers to get creative?
Admiral Beez
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Prometheus The Supremo
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it's also a safety issue. some billboards can obstruct views and can create dangerous circumstances. also, illegally placed signs might not conform to safety standards since no official has inspected their installation.
does anyone know if there any laws for sidewalks signs? sometimes they put these things right next to a crossing, inline with the sidewalk and while trying to cross the road, they block my view and prevent drivers from seeing me. it's not really an issue for standin' folk because they're taller than these signs but it is for sitting folk. well, actually it could be an issue for standing folk too since small children are not taller than these signs.
does anyone know if there any laws for sidewalks signs? sometimes they put these things right next to a crossing, inline with the sidewalk and while trying to cross the road, they block my view and prevent drivers from seeing me. it's not really an issue for standin' folk because they're taller than these signs but it is for sitting folk. well, actually it could be an issue for standing folk too since small children are not taller than these signs.
ShonTron
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You mean A-frame or sandwich board signs? Yep, they're mostly illegally placed.
Prometheus The Supremo
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yup. those ones.
wonderboy416
Active Member
If Toronto enforced the illegal basement apartment by-law there'd be a housing crisis! Mortgages that couldn't be met, students with no homes.. I think the Annex would suddenly be the most boring area in Toronto. Thank goodness it's not enforced!
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Okay, but how is this analogous to enforcing the law on illegal signs? Are you suggesting there would be a sign crisis?
Or is this just another one of those posts where we suggest that whatever law we think is silly shouldn't be enforced because other laws are not enforced?
Unless you're suggesting a sign crisis would occur, I don't see the point of your post.
T
terrafirma
Guest
I believe the bigger issue is being overlooked.
The issue really revolves around the larger media outlets trying to starve out the smaller and independent media outlets in order to preserve their share of the advertising budgets. There is a fixed (probably declining today) amount of money to go around every year for ad spending and the more signs that permeate the city, even harmless, safe and unoffensive ones, the less media revenue for the existing signs and their permit holders. I completely agree that we should be enforcing our city's By-Laws that theoretically serve to benefit us all collectively but look how capricious and arbitrary the enforcement is! The enormous video displays along the Gardiner could not be more distracting to a driver and yet they are grandfathered in because of various political interests. It is also worth mentioning that the city has permitted their own buildings for 3rd party media revenue while simultaneously denying other applicants on the same basis! Oh the hypocrisy on Queen Street.
Therefore the large entrenched media outlets would be very motivated to target any new billboards that surface and would similarly have access to the right people. Read into that statement whatever you wish....
Personally, I believe that in this economic maelstrom that is crushing the hearts and minds of the people of this city on a daily basis we should be aggressively seeking out ways to properly permit these harmless signs and levy significant licensing fees from the media companies or alternatively look for creative ways to control content and generate revenue from them such as revenue sharing agreements. Or perhaps even insist on periodic displays by local city artists or local city events and attractions to showcase and foster our cultural populations? Nothing like free advertising for the City!
Consider perhaps that the benefits to the City might outweigh the minor offense that some people take to the concept of advertising.
The issue really revolves around the larger media outlets trying to starve out the smaller and independent media outlets in order to preserve their share of the advertising budgets. There is a fixed (probably declining today) amount of money to go around every year for ad spending and the more signs that permeate the city, even harmless, safe and unoffensive ones, the less media revenue for the existing signs and their permit holders. I completely agree that we should be enforcing our city's By-Laws that theoretically serve to benefit us all collectively but look how capricious and arbitrary the enforcement is! The enormous video displays along the Gardiner could not be more distracting to a driver and yet they are grandfathered in because of various political interests. It is also worth mentioning that the city has permitted their own buildings for 3rd party media revenue while simultaneously denying other applicants on the same basis! Oh the hypocrisy on Queen Street.
Therefore the large entrenched media outlets would be very motivated to target any new billboards that surface and would similarly have access to the right people. Read into that statement whatever you wish....
Personally, I believe that in this economic maelstrom that is crushing the hearts and minds of the people of this city on a daily basis we should be aggressively seeking out ways to properly permit these harmless signs and levy significant licensing fees from the media companies or alternatively look for creative ways to control content and generate revenue from them such as revenue sharing agreements. Or perhaps even insist on periodic displays by local city artists or local city events and attractions to showcase and foster our cultural populations? Nothing like free advertising for the City!
Consider perhaps that the benefits to the City might outweigh the minor offense that some people take to the concept of advertising.