Ideas for funding the TTC?

[CodeMonkey]

But only on the platforms that are big enough to handle one without making crowds even more dangerous... It would probably make TTC into the wealthiest landlord in the city

I was thinking of that, just carve out a hole in the wall along the platform wall to have it in(eg. Bloor). However it won't work for stations like St. George, but stations like St. Patricks and Queens Park that have the sealed off old waiting areas would be a good place to have them. TTC can collect a percentage of the profits from each station instead of just renting fees.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Those mega-station palaces in the outer 416 have enough empty space in them to have retail space installed in them, and rented out. Why can't we have a green grocer in some of them for us to pick up some fresh apples for an apple pie for example?

The reason: no stopovers allowed, as printed on the back of your transfer.

 

[Northern Light]

Why not have a Tim Hortons at some stations at platform level? Its a crazy idea, but the money the TTC can generate off of people desperate for coffee would be more of a better idea than cutting service or raising fares to balance the budget.

So...

I suggested something similar to this, including a Tim Horton's for Main Station at the street level (similar to Pape), but designed to serve both Fare-paid; and Fare-unpaid areas.

I got a back a note from the TTC saying "We don't solicit particular retailers for our subway, we just make space available for lease"

So I wrote a note to Timmie's; pointed out their success at Pape and an overcrowded Tim's just down the street from Main Stn that could supply the new one.....

I nearly fell over from reading a note that said "We don't tell the TTC where to put stores, if they want us, they'll come find us.." (not quite what they said, but that's the gist)

Blows me away that the TTC and I would argue Tim's miss such a great opportunity. In most of the older stations it would be hard to fit; but Main, North York Centre, Downsview, Spadina, and Bay all have large completely underutilized spaces where retail could be offered.

The stations where retail is offered, Finch, Warden etc. do a very poor job of it, and don't maximize revenue.

I've been thinking..... what does anyone think of the idea of the TTC turning over its whole system (for retail leasing purposes) to Oxford, or Cadillac Fairview? The TTC would get a cut of the rent, say 20%, along with a guarantee of the exisiting amount collected as the base. But the new manager could keep the rest. I wonder how much more space would get leased?

 

[kettal]

I'm not sure exactly how these things work, but don't franchisee's find a storefront, lease it, then go to the Tim Hortons franchising office and get a license to open up a Tims at the site. Maybe that's what you should do.

 

[Northern Light]

Kettal, nope that's not how it works.

You go to Horton's and get in a long line to get a franchise.

You give them a big fat cheque (btw $250,000 - $1,000,000) and they assign you a location (you can give a general area, like 'Toronto'.)

I must say, I don't have that kinda discretionary cash floating around; but if I did; owning a Tim's would not be at the top of my to-do list with it.

 

[CodeMonkey]

I'm not sure exactly how these things work, but don't franchises find a storefront, lease it, then go to the Tim Hortons franchising office and get a license to open up a Tims at the site. Maybe that's what you should do.

Basicly yes. However it does depend on if the company by-laws that could state that it has to be approved first or it doesn't conflict with a existing Tim Hortons. But if that fails they can open Starbucks. There places where you have a Starbucks across the street from another Starbucks, they really don't care where you have it.

And if the TTC Management doesn't like the idea as Northern Light pointed out. Then give them their paycheque and show them the door, hire some people who can make new revenue streams that don't involved selling of station naming rights or cutting services as "great ideas" to fix the TTC income.

 

[lordmandeep]

All I know, I have seen some Tim Horton in some really weird places and I have yet to see one close down.

 

[adma]

I've seen closed-down/ex-Tim's outlets--though usually because a newer model opened up across the way...

 

[urbandreamer]

Here's how the TTC should make more money:

1)Every ten years they're allowed to raised fares to reflect rate of inflation. In 2010, set the base rate for a metropass at $150. Eliminate cash fares (tokens only) and also get a weekly pass for $50.

2)Wal-Mart Stations. Yes, allow companies naming rights to future subway/LRT stations in exchange for building these shops beside or above the stations, with less parking... What matters is more stations for more people, not debates over public vs private concerns.

3)Buying buses etc should be Ontario wide. That means all cities get new buses at same time, say every 15-30 years, saving money by bulk orders.

4)Any developers that wanna build dense housing on TTC land given the rubber stamp to do so. Only design review panel is a must here.

5)Phase out the TTC booth guy. CCTV cameras, (private security company) transit cops and automated systems eliminate many unionized employees over time.

6)Sell prime TTC HQ to a condo developer(s).

7)TTC streetcar parking lots should have shopping centres etc built on top.

8)Fare zones. 2 for starters--old city of Toronto 1 zone, x'burbs 2nd zone.

Any more I missed?

 

[CodeMonkey]

Here's how the TTC should make more money:

1)Every ten years they're allowed to raised fares to reflect rate of inflation. In 2010, set the base rate for a metropass at $150. Eliminate cash fares (tokens only) and also get a weekly pass for $50.

Interesting idea.

2)Wal-Mart Stations. Yes, allow companies naming rights to future subway/LRT stations in exchange for building these shops beside or above the stations, with less parking... What matters is more stations for more people, not debates over public vs private concerns.

They thought of it when they where planing the Spadina extension, however it conflicts with naming laws as the stations are suppose to be named by intersection or major building they are near.

3)Buying buses etc should be Ontario wide. That means all cities get new buses at same time, say every 15-30 years, saving money by bulk orders.

Grand idea; but they'll complain that there isn't enough money to buy buses all at once in the province. The close to realty that idea will come is a 10 year phase-in of buses across the provinces for city's and towns.

4)Any developers that wanna build dense housing on TTC land given the rubber stamp to do so. Only design review panel is a must here.

As long as it doesn't crush the tunnel below.

5)Phase out the TTC booth guy. CCTV cameras, (private security company) transit cops and automated systems eliminate many unionized employees over time.

LOL, you think union members are going to give up their $~125,000 a/year job? I like the idea, but they'll strike if ever such a idea was proposed.

6)Sell prime TTC HQ to a condo developer(s).

Don't know if that's going to work well for TTC staff. They still need a office.

7)TTC streetcar parking lots should have shopping centres etc built on top.

Only if they can find it developer that wants to build above the land.

8)Fare zones. 2 for starters--old city of Toronto 1 zone, x'burbs 2nd zone.

Another idea they thought of awhile ago. But one of the many reasons they killed was most riders didn't get the zoning system and it would cost too much to educated and enforce people to use such a system.

 

[Second_in_pie]

LOL, you think union members are going to give up their $~125,000 a/year job? I like the idea, but they'll strike if ever such a idea was proposed.

What would the drawback of them striking be? We wouldn't need them anymore!

 

[CodeMonkey]

What would the drawback of them striking be? We wouldn't need them anymore!

They'll take the system maintenance staff with them if they strike. They all strike at onces.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd suggest a new TTC headquarters at Markham and Steeles. Let them learn first hand how much LRT really helps people who live in Scarborough.

 

[doady]

3)Buying buses etc should be Ontario wide. That means all cities get new buses at same time, say every 15-30 years, saving money by bulk orders.

The TTC is already so large it won't benefit at all from joint purchase with other systems. Ontario already has a bulk bus order program and even MT doesn't bother with it.

 

[wyliepoon]

1)Every ten years they're allowed to raised fares to reflect rate of inflation. In 2010, set the base rate for a metropass at $150. Eliminate cash fares (tokens only) and also get a weekly pass for $50.

Hong Kong has developed a formula which takes inflation into account to determine fare changes...

Overall fare increase/decrease = 0.5x consumer price index change + 0.5x wage index change - 0.5x production factor (set at 0.1%)

The fare change cannot be greater than 5% or less than 1.5%. With this formula, there is a possibility of a fare cut if there is deflation. Unfortunately, if the statistician makes a mistake, the mistake is reflected in the fare (this has happened!).

http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hk/可加可減機制 (Chinese)

2)Wal-Mart Stations. Yes, allow companies naming rights to future subway/LRT stations in exchange for building these shops beside or above the stations, with less parking... What matters is more stations for more people, not debates over public vs private concerns.

I would only agree with this if the station actually makes sense. "Walmart Station" wouldn't work as the name "Walmart" makes no sense geographically, as would any name of a chain store.

What might work is if a condo/mall/office developer buys up naming rights to a station next door and applies the name of the project to the station, as long as that name is unique and works for the community. It could also apply to existing landmarks; for example, TTC could threaten to change the name to Yorkdale Station if Yorkdale Mall doesn't pay up.

Potentially, TTC could sell naming rights to direction signage in stations, or to automated announcements on buses. For a fee, a building could get TTC to add its name to a directional sign in a subway station that leads passengers to that building, or to have the name of that building announced on the bus that passes in front of the building.

The Dubai Metro claims to be the first metro system in the world to apply corporate branding to its stations, but in Dubai you don't see stations named after McDonald's or Walmart. They are usually named after nearby developments.

4)Any developers that wanna build dense housing on TTC land given the rubber stamp to do so. Only design review panel is a must here.

That might guarantee the TTC riders, but not more profits. The TTC should partner with the developer in developing the project, and get some of the profits from selling the units. If it is a mixed use development (retail in the podium), the TTC should get a cut of the rent too. That's how the MTR subway operator in Hong Kong gets rich.