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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

Of course. This is stupid politics that means that over time little progress is made. HSR to London and eventually Windsor was a Liberal idea. Well, if it is Liberal it is no good. Get rid of it. Studies can prove anything. Likewise, now it is GO service to Niagara being Doug Ford's idea. But this will not happen within a 4 year mandate just like the London plan. So we cancel the London plan and then do the Conservative plan to Niagara. Then we elect another government and then they will cancel the Conservative Niagara plan. If anything is a waste of taxpayers money, is this sort of thing. We need to plan things and keep the momentum. Too much money is wasted on study after study and half of them are politically motivated rather than sound planning studies. I would elect someone in a flash who would say, we have started something. Let's keep it going and actually build something. Politicians love cutting ribbons but it is so much easier to cancel projects than actually build something that has long-term value. And the longer the term, the less likely something will get built because of this. Bah!
 
lrt's friend said:
Likewise, now it is GO service to Niagara being Doug Ford's idea.
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Apples versus bananas.

Commuter service for Niagara was announced in 2016 and already under construction!

But you're right about one thing; the all-day Niagara was Ford's idea (From a politician's mouth at least, of course. Since non-governmentally, www.niagarago.ca already advocated for all-day service).

Nominally, Niagara GO is happening under any government -- the announcement to proceed with elements of Niagara GO is already well under way with several construction sites, so at least 4 trains per day will make it to Niagara Falls. Desjardins bridge expanded, Lewis yard built already in Grimsby (and underused), the overbuilt built over Centennial Parkway -- so there's significant momentum already well under way at a steady pace. Just look at the satellite photograph of brand new GO Lewis railyard in Grimsby and the Centennial Parkway bridge -- and the new Grimsby station just began construction this year -- all built to service Niagara GO to the terms of the 2011 Niagara ESR -- there's other construction sites I've visited too. Some of this was funded as part of West Harbour GO and Confederation GO funds, but elements are built to the specs required of Niagara ESR requirements to serve Niagara Falls.

So Niagara GO related construction is already well under way. It may not be all-day as Ford is now tooting, but Niagara GO construction on elements is well under way.
 
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Andy_in_Toronto said:
Sad news. So HSR is dead now?
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The committee will probably be replaced with PC party friendly members. They will 1) need time to catch up, and 2) be recommending several additional stops.

So it's dead in the same way the original concept for UPX died; the express part is compromised with the addition of Bloor/Eglinton/Weston stops to the concept but it's still a useful service.

IMO, kicking Collenette off probably helped the project. He's largely the reason UPX wasn't a more standard GO service from the start.


It feels like things are headed toward an all-day service with 6 to 8 stops with a handful of peak-period express trains overlaid on top of it; effectively the LakeShore GO model with much wider stop spacing.
 
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rbt said:
So it's dead in the same way the original concept for UPX died; The express part is kinda gone with the addition of Bloor/Eglinton/Weston stops to the concept but it's still a useful service.
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They are/will be serving much more people, which makes them arguably much more useful than the initial concept for both projects...
 
rbt said:
Agreed.

The original case for the express service still exists (for both systems) but that should be in addition to relatively frequent all-stop service too.
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Exactly! Express services are usually added when local services are struggling to cope with the demand they face, not if they are mostly non-existant...
 
rbt said:
Agreed.

The original case for the express service still exists (for both systems) but that should be in addition to relatively frequent all-stop service too.
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Urban Sky said:
Exactly! Express services are usually added when local services are struggling to cope with the demand they face, not if they are mostly non-existant...
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To be fair, the HSR proposal is pretty much what you're describing. It recommends HSR trains running in the same corridor as hourly GO trains, which would make all stops to Kitchener.
 
This province. I swear. 20 years from now when SW Ontario becomes an even worse rustbelt shithole, they are going to to be scrambling to spend double the amount to build this HSR.
 
MisterF said:
To be fair, the HSR proposal is pretty much what you're describing. It recommends HSR trains running in the same corridor as hourly GO trains, which would make all stops to Kitchener.
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It’s not operating both in the same corridor which is highly unusual: it’s building both at the same time...

kEiThZ said:
This province. I swear. 20 years from now when SW Ontario becomes an even worse rustbelt shithole, they are going to to be scrambling to spend double the amount to build this HSR.
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No, they’ll ask themselves how they could allow themselves to get sidetracked with discussing the desirable but politically infeasible, while delaying the essential and (comparatively) affordable. Basically the same as what has happened east of Toronto in the last decades...
 
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MisterF said:
To be fair, the HSR proposal is pretty much what you're describing. It recommends HSR trains running in the same corridor as hourly GO trains, which would make all stops to Kitchener.
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I expect to see stops somewhere near Stratford and St. Mary's added to the project (if it continues). These are reliable conservative ridings with some train service today that felt a left out of the Liberal proposal.
 
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kEiThZ said:
This province. I swear. 20 years from now when SW Ontario becomes an even worse rustbelt shithole, they are going to to be scrambling to spend double the amount to build this HSR.
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My understanding is that it is the farming community that is opposing this project, which will not benefit them much?
 
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