High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto | Page 124

Discussion in 'Transportation and Infrastructure' started by ehlow, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. mdrejhon

    mdrejhon Senior Member

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    Not necessarily if you interpret it in a scoping way.

    Catenary can be the same, and the speed limits won't go higher until in the rural areas.

    A HSR and RER train going at the same speed (90mph limit of urban track segments) makes about the same amount of noise and community impact. If frequency caps are kept too. If you need to speed them up for a section, yes, an EA and community impacts for that new track section.

    You do need an EA for HSR but it can simply be a superset of the existing RER EA.
    It's more efficient that way, from a taxpayer perspective.
    No sham. (Except for all the vaporware)

    *and* not all sections of a HSR corridor necessarily needs an EA if the HSR operates within the constraints (frequency, speed, noise, etc) of a particular section if you drive the HSR as a non-HSR through that section.

    Even European HSR services run slow over a big percentage of their corridors (e.g. 50%) and ours would be no different.

    By necessity HSR will run at ordinary "Express GO train" speeds until very well past Brampton....
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  2. muller877

    muller877 Senior Member

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  3. Allandale25

    Allandale25 Senior Member

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    A sign in along Highway 8, at Walker Road, just West of New Hamburg.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. CapitalSeven

    CapitalSeven Active Member

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    Ya, people who go everywhere in trucks against electric mass transit.
     
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  5. crs1026

    crs1026 Senior Member

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    That's a pretty well-constructed sign. Not mass produced and doesn't point to a group or web site.

    I'd guess that it's a one-of, although I have heard there are more popping up. I drove all over Oxford County last week but didn't see any. Kind of like the guy on Highway 115 with the 'Back Off Government" sign that has been there for decades.

    Anyways, it does suggest there will be a political reckoning before HSR actually goes anywhere.

    - Paul
     
  6. MTown

    MTown Senior Member

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    Pardon my ignorance but what would prompt someone in that area to be against HSR?
     
  7. Urban Sky

    Urban Sky Active Member

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    Farmers' concerns about loosing valuable farmland and the ease of accessing it, for instance:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...il-kitchener-london-windsor-toronto-1.4269202
     
  8. Garuda

    Garuda New Member

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    I bet that same farmer would jump the gun and sell their land to a developer if they got a sweet offer at the first given opportunity if the price was high enough.
     
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  9. MTown

    MTown Senior Member

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    Thanks.


    I now have to take some time to assess whether or not I think that's a reasonable worry.

    The farmer behind my parents' place in Durham is having one of his fields cut in half for an exceptionally unnecessary road. He doesn't have any signs though.
     
  10. crs1026

    crs1026 Senior Member

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    The other issue is potential dead ending of existing roads, which affects emergency vehicle response time and general inconvenience.

    The land required for a rail line is much less than that for even a modest roadway. It pales compared to the land required to build even one modest subdivision. If anyone is concerned with loss of farmland, they should oppose local development more than HSR.

    - Paul
     
  11. MisterF

    MisterF Senior Member

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    Dead ending of local roads is routine for freeways so I don't see it being any more of a concern for an HSR line. Fire departments calculate response times from fire halls for development applications, which would play a role in determining which local roads can be dead ended.
     
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  12. Urban Sky

    Urban Sky Active Member

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    Every Highway and HSR project can be built in a way that does not cut off any local roads. It's just a question of costs, but that doesn't seem to be much of a constraint in Ontario at the moment... ;)
     
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  13. steveintoronto

    steveintoronto Senior Member

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    The concern expressed by some has always been the case and always will be. What new rail line or highway was ever welcomed by everyone?

    Not Ontario High Speed, but an omen none-the-less, not on the technology, but the *implementation*, something Ontario had best learn from, Even the Brits (although this is politics, not economics) haven't learned from the Crossrail model, their example to the world on how to finance and build massive infrastructure projects:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...cue-plan-lenders-loan-contracts-a8146026.html

    Every major UK newspaper has this headlined, although Google News search is showing remarkably little unless juggling the tags.

    This search parameter nets many hits:
    "HSR2 carillion"
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  14. steveintoronto

    steveintoronto Senior Member

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    They've failed, and it's hit the Cdn news now. Today's Globe:
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...dian-workers-future-in-doubt/article37601698/

    In Canada's case, there were some parallels to Aecon, but besides some flak that P3 is going to run into, and this was just one bad incident where many are very successful, more questions are going to be asked about Bombardier, not a construction company per-se, but very much involved in P3 projects.

    If Ontario does want to push ahead with HSR, besides the obvious symbiosis with HFR. it will have to be a P3 project. There are lessons to be learned from the Carillion example.
     
  15. crs1026

    crs1026 Senior Member

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    ^The press hasn't spelled out yet why Carillon failed. The simplistic answer is, because they ran out of money....but that's trite. There must have been mistakes, mishandling of money, poor performance, unforeseens, bad practices, or competitive activity that caused the company to burn up money faster than its revenue, and irrevocably so. It will take some digging into business articles and maybe some hindsight to understand all of that.

    What I take positively is that the writers of the article highlighted Carillon's involvement in HSR as the first fact about what that enterprise was up to. That's saying that people know what HSR is and can relate to it, and it's actually an attention getter.

    There may be a downside to what I just said.... potentially the message delivered, intentionally or otherwise, is that HSR is risky and maybe unprofitable......but the authors wouldn't have put it first if it was obscure and unheard of. It just may be sexy to the Globe's readers after all.

    - Paul
     

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