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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

Longview said:
I have no technical expertise to offer on this subject, just a thought: would it not make sense to offer a fast, convenient, and non-stressful travel connection between IT skills supply (Kitchener-Waterloo) and demand (Toronto)? Build that much of a high-speed service as a pilot project and expand as required to London, Windsor, etc.
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You are right on, that's the highest demand segment of all of Ontario west of Toronto. A rail service that is competitive with driving is a no-brainer on that route. Ontario's response to that is widening the 401 west of Mavis to Highway 8, but that's not much of a solution because there is no highway capacity left east of Hurontario.

Improving rail service doesnt demand all the bells and whistles and fancy buzzwords. Just do the basics (double track, the 401 underpass, fix the Guelph slow order, resolve joint use of the CN owned segment). It would capture market share.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Improving rail service doesnt demand all the bells and whistles and fancy buzzwords. Just do the basics (double track, the 401 underpass, fix the Guelph slow order, resolve joint use of the CN owned segment). It would capture market share.

- Paul
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And the case for InfraBank or other PPP investment is also far higher, as the return per investment v liabilities/risks is far better.
 
So now Brampton is pissed off because they won't be getting a stop. Of course Georgetown, Acton, and Stratford will now be equally demanding in their "right" to have a stop. The more the stations the more this line will morph into nothing more than a high frequency rail line because they are taking the "high speed" out of HSR.

This is one of the reasons why I have never agreed with the London via Kitchener alignment. It would cheaper, faster, and more direct for the people of London & Windsor to just build the Brantford northern bypass using the line northern route which bypasses Ingersol and Woodstock and running express trains. Londoners could get to Toronto in 70 minutes with no freight delays.
 
and again and again you fail to realize that the real destination on the line isn't london, but Kitchener. Also the key connection to Pearson. The whole narrative of the thing is the Toronto-Waterloo innovation corridor. London is far from the sole destination of the project.

Londoners will get to Toronto in 70 minutes on this route as well. And Kitchener in 25, Pearson in 50.
 
ssiguy2 said:
So now Brampton is pissed off because they won't be getting a stop. Of course Georgetown, Acton, and Stratford will now be equally demanding in their "right" to have a stop.
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Because those municipalities are so similar? One is a city of over 600k now and slated to continue growing to around 900k and the others are, well not that at all.

I will tell you something else, if I was a tech industry guy in KW pushing for this line I would be asking why there is no stop in Brampton....a large, fast growing city with the youngest average age in the GTA.....if this line has one of its goals of attracting talent to their companies, I would be asking why it is bypassing so many of the targets....but, sure, it is just like bypassing Acton :(
 
TOareaFan said:
.......but, sure, it is just like bypassing Acton :(
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That's what is so dumb about putting HxR ahead of good regional service. A good trackbed with the right equipment could offer auto-competitive service and still make several stops in key locations along the route. There will have to be some stops skipped, so KW is best served by something 'expressy' that dovetails with vanilla RER east of, say, Mount Pleasant, but the two can complement each other.

- Paul
 
ssiguy2 said:
So now Brampton is pissed off because they won't be getting a stop. Of course Georgetown, Acton, and Stratford will now be equally demanding in their "right" to have a stop. The more the stations the more this line will morph into nothing more than a high frequency rail line because they are taking the "high speed" out of HSR.
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In case you suddenly decide to adopt the informed and fact-based (or at least: -acknowledging) discussion style normally cultivated in this forum: In countries like Japan, trains loose only 3-8 minutes per additional stop, despite being frequently overtaken by faster trains at these intermediate stations. Note that even the Kodama milkrun service (trains 5 and 11 in the table below) offers Tokyo-Shizuoka (same distance as Toronto-London) in 88 minutes and Tokyo-Nagoya in 168 minutes (same distance as Toronto-Windsor) - still a travel saving of 40 and 68 minutes (or 31-32%), respectively, compared with the fastest VIA timings today...
upload_2017-6-21_14-49-27.png

Source: JR Central westbound Shinkansen timetable

ssiguy2 said:
This is one of the reasons why I have never agreed with the London via Kitchener alignment. It would cheaper, faster, and more direct for the people of London & Windsor to just build the Brantford northern bypass using the line northern route which bypasses Ingersol and Woodstock and running express trains. Londoners could get to Toronto in 70 minutes with no freight delays.
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Yes, sure, and (once we are at it) why not extend your HSR proposal to Chicago while skipping Detroit (stops in Windsor and Ann Arbor will do), since population figures apparently don't matter when planning HSR lines and services? I have already provided a detailed analysis of the two different corridors (including a variant with the Brantford cutoff you are referring to) almost 3 years ago, while I am still waiting for anything from your side beyond uninformed and fact-ignoring speculation...
 

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Once a route is electrified, the rate of expected acceleration and deceleration is pretty much doubled, sometimes more, over diesel. The 'time penalty' for in-between stops is still a concern, but much less of one than before. The advantage will be enjoyed by HFR, RER and even some freight services if hauled by electric locos over some electrified routes.
 
Brampton already has a stop, it's called Malton. As far as comparing Brampton to smaller cities, that requires logical transportation planning that is void of political interference which and, as Torontonians in particular are aware of, doesn't happen. If with all these added stops, Londoners can still get from downtown to Union in 70 minutes as clearly promised then fine but if not then stops should be cut until it is.
 
Adjei said:
So, its close enough to Brampton.
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Really????

Brampton has no service to it in the first place or a need for it.

I guess a downtown on the mainline doesn't cut it????
 
mdrejhon said:
Nice layering - nearly subway-style frequency on express Shinkansens, hourly on semiexpress Shinkansens, and half-hourly milk run Shinkansens.
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thats a gold standard of commuter and express rail. There really is no equal in the world when it comes to rail travel
 
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