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Harper Eliminates Funding for Big Science

it poses a big dilemma though. do parents have a right to control what their children learn or should parents be prevented from interfering in their children's lives in such ways that can be a detriment to their future?
 
it poses a big dilemma though. do parents have a right to control what their children learn or should parents be prevented from interfering in their children's lives in such ways that can be a detriment to their future?

Parents have the right to home school their kids and the bar for that is pretty low. We also allow parents to send their kids to private schools and religious schools (some of which don't teach stadardized curricula). And it was also noted in the article that parents already had the right to pull their kids from other subjects that might be discomfiting to their values. So I don't see what the big deal is here. I'd rather they pull their kids from one class than stick them in one of those other types of schools or home school them.

As for parents doing stuff to the detriment of the kid's future. Parents already do plenty of that and not all of if has to do with religion. Once you start assessing somebody's parenting abilities beyond the bare basics (survival) where do you draw the line. Should we penalize parents who let their kids get obese?
 
I'm a parent and I encourage my child to learn all he can about science. The school in my area is doing a stellar job at educating in both biology and chemistry. I just helped him with a chemistry lab, the synthesis of ASA. I did the very same lab in organic chemistry, second year U of T, he did it in grade 11. Parents are just as responsible for their child's formal education as the school system is, we compliment each others work towards educating our kids, our future is in their hands. Why not provide hard science in the class room and let parents deal with communicating their personal view about evolution and religious beliefs in that regard, creationist schools of thought should be taught in bible school if parents feel that strongly about that but certainly not in a science class.
I have a big problem with the notion of dumbing down our kids.
 
While I am not proud of these kinds of rules, we have to put it in context. The vast majority of Albertan kids will still have the same science lesson as kids outside the province. That small minority that believes in theology as a substitute for science are well within their rights to place their kids at the bottom of the economic food chain. I have no problem with it if you want your kids to be dumber.

I say put a big asterisk on their diplomas and transcripts that says "OPTED OUT OF EVOLUTION" or some such. I want to know which students have no grasp of the difference between religion and science. Honestly, what is next, π = 3?
 
When kids hit school age, that environment quickly becomes the primary arena for socialization. Some people greatly fear that environment. I think it's unfortunate that some parents believe that they can exclusively program their children into being exactly what they want them to be, and to believe in exactly what they want them to believe in. But "parenting" does grant them that right to a considerable degree. At the other end of the spectrum, some form of extreme social engineering is equally unpalatable as the "programming" parent.

The world we live in is, to a significant degree, defined by scientific ideas. It's sad when some of the most basic scientific knowledge slips by, and is instead replaced by any one of a range of mythologies that lack any explanatory power or utility.
 
While I'm tempted to wash my hands of them I believe it's doing the kids a disservice. It doesn't prevent the parents from doing their best to make their children unlearn everything they learned at school if they want to try, but unless we don't believe that kids are profoundly influenced during their early years then they deserve the opportunity to hear more than one perspective on this. I think science in particular deserves that considering what its put up with over the centuries from certain quarters just to advance itself. Religious schools can teach all the religion they want (as long as they are privately funded) but leave science alone.

On the same tack I'd love to decertify every school that doesn't teach the standard curriculum in addition to whatever it adds (it's not perfect but it covers all the bases) but that's another issue.
 
I'm not convinced that allowing parents to opt their children out of any part of publicly mandated education is acceptable without shredding any kind of laws regarding truancy. If learning about evolution and homosexuality is offensive on religious grounds for Christians, I'm sure orthodox jews or muslims could have a field day. Public schools portray men touching women other than their wives or relatives? That's it, pull little Mohommed out of class.

All that is before resorting to pastafarian type arguments to render the whole idea absurd.
 
lol, I still remember the day in grade 6 when I had to bring a letter home from school.

The letter asked parents if they were allowed to teach their children sex education. I was worried, always thought my parents were very strict.

I gave them the letter and they started laughing and they said, better them then me!!!
 
I found this article interesting. Thought, I'd throw it out there for discussion. I don't buy all of it, but perhaps its a valid question to ask whether the scientific community should expect constant ever-increasing funding even in times of scarcity.

---------------------------------
PUBLICATION: National Post
DATE: 2009.05.14
EDITION: National
SECTION: Issues & Ideas
PAGE: A21
ILLUSTRATION: Black & White Photo: Reuters /;
BYLINE: Michael Bliss
SOURCE: National Post
WORD COUNT: 913

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Beggars in lab coats; Canadian scientists are politicizing research in a way that could come back to haunt them

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The government of Canada and elements of our scientific community are embroiled in a nasty little struggle about the future of research support, which seems likely to produce only losers.

Ever since the budget was announced in January, we have been treated to media stories retailing scientists' complaints about the impact of receiving less support than was expected. First we were told that genomic research is not being adequately funded. Then we heard about scientists having to shut down programs, about scientists deciding to move to the United States -- where the free-spending Obama administration is pouring billions more dollars into scientific research of all kinds. Some 2,000 scientists signed a petition asking Ottawa for more money. In passing, The Globe and Mail -- in which most of these stories had heavy play -- gave front-page coverage to a nasty bit of "gotcha" journalism implying that our Minister of State for Science and Technology, Gary Goodyear, may not believe in evolution -- in other words, he must be an anti-science dumbbell.

Other stakeholders in Canadian science policy, beginning with the board of Genome Canada, have countered these stories by pointing out that Ottawa's current restraint in funding our major granting agencies (the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council and the Humanities and Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council) is quantitatively gentle, and has been far more than balanced by increases in support for research infrastructure inside and outside our universities, and by billions spent on new programs to try to foster applications of research that will actually benefit the Canadian economy and human beings around the world. At a time of serious recession, it's surely not unreasonable to begin to use our research capacity in more focused, more targeted, more practical ways.

The problem seems to be that a fairly powerful coalition of pure scientists -- who resist any attempt to steer the direction of research -- plus disappointed grant applicants, plus a handful of scientific superstars willing to auction themselves to the highest bidding government, is trying fairly transparently to manipulate public reverence for science to bring pressure on Ottawa to abandon its priorities and just spend more and more. If the Americans are spending big bucks on big science why can't Canada?

A campaign like this politicizes research in a way that will harm Canadian scientists in the long term. It seems to reflect an over-developed sense of entitlement (akin to that demonstrated by the arts community in Quebec in the last election), and an unwillingness to accept restraint at a time when millions of Canadians are having to adjust to straightened circumstances. Add the anger and offence created by the use of threats and slurs and other bare-knuckle lobbying tactics, and the danger is that politicians, instead of caving in, will respond by washing their hands of Canada's science community.

Ottawa's spending on scientific research is not likely to affect Canadian voters one way or another. An annoyed government, however, that comes to believe that the science community is insatiable and unreasonable, can wreak serious long-term damage on its critics. We saw this happen with medical research in the early 1990s, when Liberal Ottawa became convinced that the old Medical Research Council of Canada was a mouthpiece for researchers with their hands always out and little notion of gratitude for years of support with other people's money. It took years of patient lobbying, and a sea change in medical researchers' attitudes, before the government altered course and signed on to the ambitions of the new Canadian Institutes of Health Research.

Canada will never be the United States when it comes to spending for research. Especially not at a time when American granting generosity is part of what much of the world, and certainly Canadians, see as the U. S. government's propensity for reckless public spending that may well be endangering the future for generations to come.

By and large, Canadian researchers have not had a bad inning in recent years. Some observers think that the research community has actually had an easy ride, never having been forced to show exactly what benefits are being generated for the Canadian people by the money given researchers. If the government of Canada ever decided, for example, that this country should lead the world in demanding hard accountability from researchers who live off taxpayers' largesse, today's discontents would seem like extremely small beer.

It's time that responsible leaders of the Canadian science and research communities began thinking of ways to cool down their more hot-headed colleagues. The strategy of declaring war on a government because some of its policies are temporarily inconvenient and vexatious can generate cheap short-term applause and support in some quarters, but in the long run tags its adherents as unreliable and unworthy, or worse. Eventually doors get shut in their faces, and/or they're left to wither on the vine.

It's a sad way to tarnish what often has been and still could be one of the success stories of Canadian public policy.

-Michael Bliss is University Professor Emeritus at the University of Toronto.
 
"But, why would you separate capital asset funding from the equation that is just as important as funding for direct costs of research." It helps any business to grow, expand or recover from loss. It is surely a big help to business owners.
The Canada government brings up a solution that will give benefit to its people.
 
I'm a parent and I encourage my child to learn all he can about science. The school in my area is doing a stellar job at educating in both biology and chemistry. I just helped him with a chemistry lab, the synthesis of ASA. I did the very same lab in organic chemistry, second year U of T, he did it in grade 11. Parents are just as responsible for their child's formal education as the school system is, we compliment each others work towards educating our kids, our future is in their hands. Why not provide hard science in the class room and let parents deal with communicating their personal view about evolution and religious beliefs in that regard, creationist schools of thought should be taught in bible school if parents feel that strongly about that but certainly not in a science class.
I have a big problem with the notion of dumbing down our kids.

I did ASA as a lab in chemistry in high school, too. It was fun. I don't believe I went to an exceptionally good school either.
 

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