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Harper Eliminates Funding for Big Science

i hope the smart minds that work in this sector figure out a way to get funding back. i hope they just don't shrug it off and move south of the border to greener pastures.
 
afransen said:
Keith, it is a profound waste of all the money spent thus far to shut down the programme at this point. Canada has invested hundreds of millions to build a cluster in genome research, and we're going to shut it down with a budget that has millions for cruise ships on the Saguenay, tax credits for hockey skates, and hundreds of millions more for cultural programmes? I don't think that Genome Canada is a frill. It is an investment in our economic future, and it's plain stupid to shut it down.
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I have never said it's a frill. It's a myth that it is being shut down. How so? The program is capitalized beyond the coming fiscal year. The program director got his knickers in a knot when he didn't get any specific mention in the budget and that's why this is in the papers. How does not getting mentioned in the budget speech translate to 'shut down'? Are we to assume that from here on in that any program that does not get special mention will be shut down? The big 3 will often get left out in certain years (Chretien years) but they weren't being shut down or facing reduced funding.

The government should be using the money it has for this fiscal year instead of adding to Genome Canada's bank account simply so they can spend it in 2 or 3. And they are doing exactly that. The program director is just unhappy that he does not have the blank cheque (repeated 100mil+ commitments that went years beyond the fiscal year) he thought he had. And I don't see why he's concerned. It's likely he'll get the cash next year. Till then, there's no need to blow this up out of proportion.

As for cruise ships on Saguenay, rebates for hockey skates, and money for cultural programmes (wait wasn't everyone for this before?), I don't see the problem with it. Pork in stimulus bills would have happened. But what's so bad about this stuff? Ship building and skate manufacturing are probably to Canada's benefit. And who would dispute funding the cultural sector? Imagine the pandering to Quebec and the Maritimes if the old guard Liberals had their hand at the till during this time period. And look at what the new left wing messiah south of the border has in his stimulus package (after just spending a week in DC I do think the mall needs new sod). As long as it keeps people employed it's all stimulus....and that can't be that bad a thing. Some fluff in any money bill is inevitable....be glad that ours does not pay for condoms or new grass for tourists to walk all over.
 
With the passage of time since this thread began, Canadian researchers have been celebrated for their work on stem cell research and we now know the minister responsible for science is not that bright....go figure.
 
Do you actually have a worthwhile contribution, or have you reopened an old discussion because of some strange, twisted, desire to simply start an argument?
 
Keithz:

Imagine the pandering to Quebec and the Maritimes if the old guard Liberals had their hand at the till during this time period.
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Why always go back to the Liberals? Canada's New Government isnt' that new anymore and I believe it also had a rather illustrious history on pandering those two particular jurisdiction. But of course, it's all an exercise in building the nation (or getting the votes) right?

You should definitely remind me what was the Conservative stance on this sort of thing prior to getting into power. Somehow, the H-word is hovering just underneath my subconscious.

AoD
 
I recently met with the senior representatives from two of the three Tri-Councils and CFI. It was ironic that not one of them complained about the "drop" in funding to the granting councils. Huh.

What is not being fairly reported is that the Tri-Councils, like every other federal entity, have recenly completed an expenditure management review process. This obliges them to find savings in their program spending and identify efficiencies to ensure better return for taxpayer dollars, this is in fact a program the Liberals started and one the Conservatives have continued. The Tri-Councils weren't singled out, they weren't victimized, and they aren't complaining (even in private).

The savings identified by the Tri-Councils themselves have in fact been re-allocated to other priority R&D areas such as Arctic research as well as helping to offset the $2 billion fund announced in Budget 2009 to refurbish and repair educational infrastructure at Canada’s Universities and Colleges.

There are indeed a few vocal critics of the Federal Government's decision, Sam Weiss from U of C comes to mind, but the reality is that the Tri-Councils and Universities themselves seem to be generally quite supportive of the announcements in Budget 2009.

As further proof to discredit any allegations that the Conservatives are poor supporers of R&D, CFI which funds up to 40 percent of a project’s “research infrastructure†cost to build long-term capacity and R&D legacies, received $750 million in new money in Budget 2009.

If that is not convincing enough, those truly motivated can refer to the Government's main estimates on the Treasury Board website. Main estimates were published last month and they quite succinctly demonstrate that the Conservatives R&D commitments stack up very well against its predecessors.

Harper haters and chicken little fanatics can cool their jets.
 
ungodlycrosscheck said:
There are indeed a few vocal critics of the Federal Government's decision, Sam Weiss from U of C comes to mind, but the reality is that the Tri-Councils and Universities themselves seem to be generally quite supportive of the announcements in Budget 2009.
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My friend is doing his masters and mentioned that his lab is getting new elevators while they could use funds for their actual research.
 
With the passage of time since this thread began, Canadian researchers have been celebrated for their work on stem cell research and we now know the minister responsible for science is not that bright....go figure.
Click to expand...

I hate to get all Lloyd Benson to your Dan Quail here, but I know Minister Goodyear, and I'll put his intellectual chops up against 95 per cent of the population's anyday. Gary is at his core a science guy, a kinesiologist and chiropractor by trade, he was and is an excellent choice for Science Minister, end of sentence.
 
ungodlycrosscheck said:
I hate to get all Lloyd Benson to your Dan Quail here, but I know Minister Goodyear, and I'll put his intellectual chops up against 95 per cent of the population's anyday. Gary is at his core a science guy, a kinesiologist and chiropractor by trade, he was and is an excellent choice for Science Minister, end of sentence.
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Is Goodyear a science guy?

Evidence for:
- ungodlycrosscheck knows him and says so

Evidence against:
- doesn't believe in/understand evolution
- is a chiropractor
 
Roy G Biv said:
Is Goodyear a science guy?
Click to expand...

Nope, I smell a rat.

lester.jpg
 
My friend is doing his masters and mentioned that his lab is getting new elevators while they could use funds for their actual research.
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Is the federal government funding the elevators? No.
Is the money coming from the school's own operations and maintenance budget? You tell me.

No money has been allocated by the feds for deferred maintenance because--well let's see -- we're still in Fiscal 2008. Moreover the application criteria for the fund has not been publicized by Industry Canada yet (the department that has oversight for the program's spending). So your point-- which I gather was to demonstrate that the federal government is directing money improperly-- is entirely moot.

In any case -- your friend wouldn't have four walls and a ceiling to conduct research in unless money was provided to ensure maintenance of fixed capital assets. Look, the reality is there are billions of dollars in deferred maintenance at Canada's colleges and universities, and the feds are stepping up to address those matters. Increased educational capacity also means more seats for students, less crowding, more graduates, more research and a better workforce that can compete in the knowledge based economy.

The AUCC, the Tri-Councils, the CFI and individual University Presidents are satisfied with the what the federal government has provided in this latest budget.
 
Roy G Biv said:
Is Goodyear a science guy?

Evidence for:
- ungodlycrosscheck knows him and says so

Evidence against:
- doesn't believe in/understand evolution
- is a chiropractor
Click to expand...

hey! that's not fair! pseudoscience is a type of science! :D
 
ungodlycrosscheck:

Would you mind telling us more about the non-capital aspects of the government's R&D spending program, and furthermore, how competitive is our program in this regard in comparison to other nations and their R&D focus?

AoD
 
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