nfitz
Superstar
There's some serious rounding. I'm starting to be convinced that the 100 was a typo and should have said 1,100.
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GTHA Transit Fare Integration
- Thread starter RedRocket191
- Start date
Platform 27
Active Member
As you never tire of telling us, the commuter rail system in your city has full fare integration baked into its fares, making it not just a plaything of the 1% who must defer their yacht payments to ride the GO each morning, but real public transit "accessible" to the poor and downtrodden. Surely that would mean looking at its 7 suburban feeder stations, the average daily riders at each (~1500) would be something the idiots of Toronto should aim to emulate.
Oh wait, no, every single GO line beats that.
Attachments
W. K. Lis
Superstar
In Brampton, children 6-12 have to pay $2.50 (e-purse/PRESTO). If the TTC will have children under 12 ride free, the kids will still need a PRESTO to use GO. Would PRESTO deduct zero for children under 12 when riding the TTC?
nfitz
Superstar
Depends how they program it. It's currently doing 60¢.
But why would you ever tap on a TTC machine if you had child under 13?
With a 2-year old, I pay my ticket on TTC, and then simply don't do anything on MiWay or GO.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I meant that we'd know how many people bought GO stickers for a Metropass.
The people arriving at Danforth are clearly not low-income. Cash-strapped people will never (not even one time per month) take the GO train, since they could get downtown much cheaper on the subway (free with a Metropass). Again, I'm talking about the people living in my building here.
Right. Because if there's one problem with GO trains, it's that they are not well-used.
Here's how GO lines stack up with the other commuter rail lines on this continent, including a certain miserly line in British Columbia. You'll note that GO lines have disproportionately high ridership.
Link to Google Spreadsheet
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nfitz
Superstar
Yes, that's what I meant too. GO is pretty secretive. Though I finally rememebred where I'd seen recent data (that I linked above).
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Hmm. Well, fingers crossed anyway.
I guess we'll only know if it goes well, in which case they'd want to tell people.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I know WCE has pathetic ridership, I never said it didn't.
If you will note I said WORLD contemporaries. Saying it has good ridership compared to US systems isn't saying much. Anybody can look good compared to the lowest common denominator. When you compared GO to other commuter/suburban systems in Europe the numbers are shockingly low. Even compared to Australian cities they are poor although Syd/Mel don't have subway systems.
My point is that Toronto's commuter rail system is quite large. It's the one area where Toronto hasn't lost ground and Metrolinx is doing an excellent and forward thinking effort of buying up the tracks so they are not at the whim of freight. Certainly the future of GO rail is very bright and will lead the charge in Toronto ridership for decades.
In many ways, subways/metros are yesterday's news. There will always be extensions and new line but the reality is that in the Western world they making increasingly less sense due to high land values and very high labour costs. They will always be needed but I feel they are a system of diminishing returns especially when tunnelled. One a per km basis, very few routes can justify the extreme costs of tunnelled subway. For the 10 km of tunnelled subway you could build 3X that amount of rapid transit LRT or up to 10X as much in commuter/suburban rail depending if the infrastructure is already there serving hundreds of more destinations and hundred of thousands if not millions of more people.
Due to GO being already a large system and Toronto having a very high downtown employment level, GO can be a real option for Torontonians and it's ridership could equal that of the subway within 20 years but only if the fares are interchangeable with the local systems.
If you will note I said WORLD contemporaries. Saying it has good ridership compared to US systems isn't saying much. Anybody can look good compared to the lowest common denominator. When you compared GO to other commuter/suburban systems in Europe the numbers are shockingly low. Even compared to Australian cities they are poor although Syd/Mel don't have subway systems.
My point is that Toronto's commuter rail system is quite large. It's the one area where Toronto hasn't lost ground and Metrolinx is doing an excellent and forward thinking effort of buying up the tracks so they are not at the whim of freight. Certainly the future of GO rail is very bright and will lead the charge in Toronto ridership for decades.
In many ways, subways/metros are yesterday's news. There will always be extensions and new line but the reality is that in the Western world they making increasingly less sense due to high land values and very high labour costs. They will always be needed but I feel they are a system of diminishing returns especially when tunnelled. One a per km basis, very few routes can justify the extreme costs of tunnelled subway. For the 10 km of tunnelled subway you could build 3X that amount of rapid transit LRT or up to 10X as much in commuter/suburban rail depending if the infrastructure is already there serving hundreds of more destinations and hundred of thousands if not millions of more people.
Due to GO being already a large system and Toronto having a very high downtown employment level, GO can be a real option for Torontonians and it's ridership could equal that of the subway within 20 years but only if the fares are interchangeable with the local systems.
Adjei
Senior Member
Update on GTHA fare integration by Metrolinx:
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0150303_BoardMtg_GTHA_Fare_Integration_EN.pdf
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0150303_BoardMtg_GTHA_Fare_Integration_EN.pdf
flyinggoats
New Member
Wow. That's it?! It seems like so little has been done on fare integration over such a long time. I can't see any "transformational" fare integration happening without a greater fare subsidy from the government. No one has addressed this, and the governments have not financially committed.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
It could be done on a revenue-neutral basis, but long distance commuters will end up paying more since the only options aside from a flat fare or fare by mode (which is not going to happen for various reasons) are fare by distance and fare by zone. The only people who may benefit from a true integration are those who pay a full double fare (such as MiWay+TTC or GO+TTC) but have a short trip on one or both of those systems - for example GO commuters who travel within a hypothetical downtown Toronto "zone 1" might end up paying less than a full TTC fare for the subway portion, while those travelling GO-like distances on the TTC will end up paying more.
Electrify
Senior Member
CTV News did a video comparison of taking the GO versus the TTC from Liberty Village and Main/Danforth. Looks like they chose a bad day for GO, as its savings were miniscule due to delays.
That said, their methodology could have been sharper. Going from Liberty Village, it required the guy to walk from King and York to Union. Perhaps having the endpoint be at Wellington or even Front to make it more even.
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...1&hootPostID=429919689bf59cb63e8e2c477f5a6fdc
That said, their methodology could have been sharper. Going from Liberty Village, it required the guy to walk from King and York to Union. Perhaps having the endpoint be at Wellington or even Front to make it more even.
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...1&hootPostID=429919689bf59cb63e8e2c477f5a6fdc
MrsNesbitt
Active Member
I saw this on the news tonight. As a science and statistics guy, I have to say that the methodology of their "experiment" is pretty poor: they used a single trip in each direction, so their sample size is basically nothing. Like you said, it happened to be on a day when GO was delayed by quite a few minutes (which, as a daily GO rider, does happen, but not as often as one might think) and so the TTC came out closer to on-parity than it otherwise would have, given a proper number of trials. Of course, Anne Marie Aikins from Metrolinx was interviewed on that same segment noting the savings of up to ~15 min in each direction that could be expected given an on-time GO, but nobody will believe her after what they just saw.
nfitz
Superstar
Part of the assumption is that the 504 is stuck in traffic. But from what I've seen, and the lack of complaints recently, 504 has been moving better in rush-hour with the recent parking enforcement blitz. Which is going to make 504 look better, unless you work next to Union station and live right at Exhibition.
Markster
Senior Member
Fare integration update from Metrolinx
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0150303_BoardMtg_GTHA_Fare_Integration_EN.pdf
Not too much in terms of concrete movement, but they are looking at options, with some amount of weighing the pros and cons:
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0150303_BoardMtg_GTHA_Fare_Integration_EN.pdf
Not too much in terms of concrete movement, but they are looking at options, with some amount of weighing the pros and cons: