GTHA Transit Fare Integration

[nfitz]

Metrolinx doesn't release any figures without a fight.

Just ask nicely, they will do it.

You want to know what the ridership is at any given GO station? It will take some digging.

To prove you wrong, I tweeted them, and they tweeted back:
"Fall 2014 - 3,800 on&offs daily at Exhibition & 2,000 for Danforth"

You want to know something obvious, like how many people swipe Presto cards each day at Union Station? Good luck! It's not even clear Metrolinx knows that in the first place.

Oh, I expect they do.

 

[Hairball]

If they've paid for their TTC bus pass, they can simply add the $60 sticker. I'm not sure what would stop those 50 that would have used that now-cancelled bus.

Several minutes? That doesn't sound right. A few would be suprising, and even a couple is pushing it.

Surely the test of whether the trains should stop at Danforth or not is the passenger volumes, not particularly the pass purchases. And how many disembark at Danforth to change to an eastbound Lakeshore train or the subway?

Officially it added about 3 minutes to the schedule for the train I usually ride on the Stouffville line. Despite the fact it stops for maybe 15 seconds, GO trains have horrible acceleration so it takes awhile to get back up to normal speeds. Electrification will greatly help with this.

 

[nfitz]

Electrification will greatly help with this.

It will, but at the same time, once the Stouffville Smartrack RER adds stops at Ellesmere, Lawrence East, Scarborough, Danforth, Coxwell, Gerrard Square, Lever, Cherry, and Sherbourne, I wouldn't be surprised if it's even slower than today!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It will, but at the same time, once the Stouffville Smartrack RER adds stops at Ellesmere, Lawrence East, Scarborough, Danforth, Coxwell, Gerrard Square, Lever, Cherry, and Sherbourne, I wouldn't be surprised if it's even slower than today!

But there'll be more people using it, so I suppose its a reasonable tradeoff

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Officially it added about 3 minutes to the schedule for the train I usually ride on the Stouffville line. Despite the fact it stops for maybe 15 seconds, GO trains have horrible acceleration so it takes awhile to get back up to normal speeds. Electrification will greatly help with this.

Have there been any estimations from ML on how much faster RER will be than current services?

 

[canarob]

If they've paid for their TTC bus pass, they can simply add the $60 sticker. I'm not sure what would stop those 50 that would have used that now-cancelled bus.

Several minutes? That doesn't sound right. A few would be suprising, and even a couple is pushing it.

Surely the test of whether the trains should stop at Danforth or not is the passenger volumes, not particularly the pass purchases. And how many disembark at Danforth to change to an eastbound Lakeshore train or the subway?

I timed it: fully stopped for 2 minutes and 40 seconds. Does not include slowing down and speeding up, etc.

 

[nfitz]

I timed it: fully stopped for 2 minutes and 40 seconds. Does not include slowing down and speeding up, etc.

Perhaps it was ahead of schedule?

 

[Adjei]

Some of the fare options Metrolinx is studying as part of the Yonge Relief Line Study:

• Fare parity with TTC and GO
• Co-Fare GO/TTC/York
• Peak premium (or off-peak discount)

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-25_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study.pdf

 

[Adjei]

• GO-TTC Joint Fare Pilot
o This one-year pilot enables TTC Metropass holders to purchase GO Transit stickers which allow for unlimited travel between Exhibition and Danforth Stations. It is designed to test the market for “express” GO service among TTC passengers and inform Fare Integration work in advance of RER and PRESTO rollout on TTC.
o The pilot program has led to valuable Metrolinx-TTC connections at the staff level for future work.
o Sales to date are lower than expected (60-75 stickers sold per month). The large majority of sales originate at Danforth GO station.
o Metrolinx is seeking feedback from customers on the pilot to help to refine models for future Fare Integration work.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-25_PP_Q1_Quarterly_Report.pdf

 

[wopchop]

Few TTC riders step up to pay more to take GO (see link, Toronto Star)

Give it more time and more marketing. That’s what transit officials counselled when the first test of an integrated TTC-GO fare got off to a slow start last winter.

But it hasn’t worked. Apparently $60 a month — the cost of access to the GO trains at Danforth and Exhibition stations for TTC Metropass holders — is too much even if it does give commuters a more comfortable, faster ride to Union Station.

In the five months between the pilot project’s launch Feb. 1 and the end of June, only 338 commuters bought the special Metropass stickers giving them GO privileges. Of those, 134 were sold in the first month of the fare integration experiment.

Since then, Metrolinx has launched its $50,000 marketing effort for the co-fare program, including a TTC station platform video, billboards, posters, social media and in-station announcements.

However, only 18 of the stickers have been sold at the Exhibition station, where Councillor Mike Layton (open Mike Layton's policard) had argued GO was a needed alternative to west-end commuters vexed by the over-crowded King streetcar. By comparison, 271 stickers sold at the Danforth GO station and 70 at Union.

Metrolinx wouldn’t comment on the sales.

 

[doady]

$201.5 a month just to travel within Toronto is still very expensive. Both TTC and GO monthly passes are ridiculously overpriced. STM and AMT have no fare integration as far as I know yet they are still cheaper than $201.5 per month.

 

[nfitz]

$201.5 a month just to travel within Toronto is still very expensive. Both TTC and GO monthly passes are ridiculously overpriced. STM and AMT have no fare integration as far as I know yet they are still cheaper than $201.5 per month.

SMT and AMT have had fare integration since at least the 1980s.

That doesn't mean fare parity though. A Zone 1 STM bus/metro pass (which also includes STM portion of Zone 2 and 3) is $82 compared to $78 for a Zone 1 AMT Train pass and $92 for the integrated bus/metro/train pass. So very integrated, but not quite parity. Though for SMT rides to Metro stations in Zone 3, the pass is $129, which also includes trains at the same price; I don't think you can get a zone 3 pass for just Metro that doesn't include trains; though you can get a train-only one for $110.

 

[aquateam]

SMT and AMT have had fare integration since at least the 1980s.

That doesn't mean fare parity though. A Zone 1 STM bus/metro pass (which also includes STM portion of Zone 2 and 3) is $82 compared to $78 for a Zone 1 AMT Train pass and $92 for the integrated bus/metro/train pass. So very integrated, but not quite parity. Though for SMT rides to Metro stations in Zone 3, the pass is $129, which also includes trains at the same price; I don't think you can get a zone 3 pass for just Metro that doesn't include trains; though you can get a train-only one for $110.

I'm not sure if it could be considered fully "integrated", it's more like a system of co-fares. What I found kind of confusing (and frustrating) is that you can get to Longeuil metro station on a normal STM monthly pass, but if you want to board a bus (or return from the same station!) you need to buy a separate RTL pass...which could only be purchased at the counter.

This comes partially from the fact that the Opus card is a stored pass card and not a stored value card.

There are also some particuliarities about the Opus card. Normally, at the beginning of the month there are huge lineups at each machine to get the monthly pass (for some reason there's only about 1 machine per station). The STM just introduced the ability to buy passes online. The catch? You need to also buy a special reader that connects to your computer by USB and have it delivered to your house.

 

[nfitz]

I'm not sure if it could be considered fully "integrated", it's more like a system of co-fares. What I found kind of confusing (and frustrating) is that you can get to Longeuil metro station on a normal STM monthly pass, but if you want to board a bus (or return from the same station!) you need to buy a separate RTL pass...which could only be purchased at the counter.

You could just buy a ticket.

This comes partially from the fact that the Opus card is a stored pass card and not a stored value card.

Exactly! People go on about how Opus got implemented faster than Presto, but the fail to note that Opus is very limited. You have to prepurchase passes or tickets for EACH system you use. I've also heard it only handles 3 different systems. Good grief, it's easy to hit 3 systems in a single journey in Toronto (TTC, GO, MiWay). Heck, you can hit a 4th system if you use a VIVA bus one-way and a ZUM bus in the reverse direction! And you have to make sure you've preloaded tickets for all 4 system? Fail.

The STM just introduced the ability to buy passes online. The catch? You need to also buy a special reader that connects to your computer by USB and have it delivered to your house.

OMFG ...

 

[raptor]

Presentation from the Sept 22 Metrolinx board meeting