GTHA Transit Fare Integration

[SunriseChampion]

I'm too young to remember that, but are you telling me that something like this once existed?

So, why was it ever discontinued? Now it's brought back as some great revelation in transit policy when it's a poor and tired (and, apparently dead) gimmick.

 

[mdrejhon]

I'm too young to remember that, but are you telling me that something like this once existed?

It's my understanding that it's a discounted $276 add-on to a Metropass for unlimited rides on GOtrains about twenty years ago. It would have been way too expensive for the average Torontoian.

A $60 add-on, however, makes a lot of sense as an interim step to better fare integration or even 416-area fare unification. Today, we have Presto on GO and TTC will soon Prestoify, so in the future, integration is a lot easier than 20 years ago. And interchanges with GO will be becoming a heck of a lot better in the coming years (several new interchanges built thanks to ECLRT and SmartTrack), so the integration demand is much bigger.

 

[Jonny5]

It's my understanding that it's a discounted $276 add-on to a Metropass for unlimited rides on GOtrains about twenty years ago. It would have been way too expensive for the average Torontoian.

I believe it was $276 total for both the Metropass and the indicated GO service (which I think is Toronto to Hamilton).

 

[TOareaFan]

If i recall correctly it was intended to help/encourage GO customers to use the TTC when they got to Toronto....whereas the current idea is intended to help TTC customers us GO as an option.

 

[nfitz]

So, why was it ever discontinued?

The Conservatives got elected and pulled the funding.

If i recall correctly it was intended to help/encourage GO customers to use the TTC when they got to Toronto....whereas the current idea is intended to help TTC customers us GO as an option.

I'd think the current deal was better for GO riders. Those currently using GO from Exhibition or Danforth effectively now pay $12 more than they were paying for GO to get unlimited TTC. It certainly benefits both.

 

[BurlOak]

I'd think the current deal was better for GO riders. Those currently using GO from Exhibition or Danforth effectively now pay $12 more than they were paying for GO to get unlimited TTC. It certainly benefits both.

And how many people were paying for a monthly pass from CNE or Main? Probably close to 0.

 

[Electrify]

Side question, does anyone know where the ridership stats for individual GO stations can be found? About 10 years ago I think I saw them in an advertising rates catalog, but sadly at the time I was still suppressing my inner urban planner.

I just renewed my student membership for CUTA, I should see if I can get the stats from there...

 

[nfitz]

And how many people were paying for a monthly pass from CNE or Main? Probably close to 0.

When you stand at Danforth and Exhibition at rush-hour and you see all those people taking a train to Union, how do you think they are paying?

 

[TOareaFan]

When you stand at Danforth and Exhibition at rush-hour and you see all those people taking a train to Union, how do you think they are paying?

Likely with a Presto card.....which they may not do now.

 

[nfitz]

And how many people were paying for a monthly pass from CNE or Main? Probably close to 0.

When you stand at Danforth and Exhibition at rush-hour and you see all those people taking a train to Union, how do you think they are paying?

Likely with a Presto card.....which they may not do now.

Oh, so when BurlOak says that no one was paying for a monthly pass, they meant that they are instead using their PrestoCard to get monthly rate capping. True I suppose, but I don't see how that changes the fact that for about $12 more (from Danforth at least), they can now get full TTC usage in addition to their 40+ rides to and from Union.

 

[TOareaFan]

Oh, so when BurlOak says that no one was paying for a monthly pass, they meant that they are instead using their PrestoCard to get monthly rate capping. True I suppose, but I don't see how that changes the fact that for about $12 more (from Danforth at least), they can now get full TTC usage in addition to their 40+ rides to and from Union.

I was simply pointing out that in our first steps towards integration we have found a way to move a group of users away from Presto....it would have been better if they could have found a way to do this via presto...is all I meant. I am fully aware that the presto equivalent of a monthly pass exists.

As for the value it really depends on how the people use this. As I said earlier this seems to be a response to that private bus thing in LV.......and while the train is likely faster.....the bus does not require that you also have a metro pass......so if someone's transit use is limited to (or primarily) to and from work then the value of this $60 add on is questionable (in fact from Exhibition to Union the cost per trip is actually higher this way than just using a Presto Card for the train.....if no other trips on TTC are taken).

 

[nfitz]

I was simply pointing out that in our first steps towards integration we have found a way to move a group of users away from Presto....it would have been better if they could have found a way to do this via presto...is all I meant. I am fully aware that the presto equivalent of a monthly pass exists.

I don't think it matter that this pushes people away from Presto. It's simply not possible to do a TTC trial involving Presto until Presto implementation is completed in 2017 (or 2016 if Colle and Tory get their way). This is only a 1-year trial, which will be completed before Presto is fully installed on TTC. Even if it does end up lingering forever, it would have to convert to Presto when TTC gets rid of standalone monthly passes. It's a nice easy way to experiment with this now, using the Metropass.

As for the value it really depends on how the people use this. As I said earlier this seems to be a response to that private bus thing in LV.......and while the train is likely faster.....the bus does not require that you also have a metro pass...

More likely the proposed Liberty bus and this are both responses to the current transit issues between Liberty Village and Union.

...so if someone's transit use is limited to (or primarily) to and from work then the value of this $60 add on is questionable (in fact from Exhibition to Union the cost per trip is actually higher this way than just using a Presto Card for the train.....if no other trips on TTC are taken).

If one only used Presto for the train, and didn't use TTC, then the Metropass is indeed more expensive. So keep using Presto. Not sure the issue here.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't think it matter that this pushes people away from Presto. It's simply not possible to do a TTC trial involving Presto until Presto implementation is completed in 2017 (or 2016 if Colle and Tory get their way). This is only a 1-year trial, which will be completed before Presto is fully installed on TTC. Even if it does end up lingering forever, it would have to convert to Presto when TTC gets rid of standalone monthly passes. It's a nice easy way to experiment with this now, using the Metropass.

Is that really true since the current plan involves GO station - Union and Union is very Presto friendly

More likely the proposed Liberty bus and this are both responses to the current transit issues between Liberty Village and Union.

Certainly the Liberty bus was that....but this sticker plan seems a response to the bus (or at least the media attention the bus generated)

If one only used Presto for the train, and didn't use TTC, then the Metropass is indeed more expensive. So keep using Presto. Not sure the issue here.

Issue is a bit strong for what I am saying. It is, after all, a discussion board and I was just pointing out that if (as I believe) this plan is a response to the LV issue of people looking to private transit to deal with a daily commute....this seems a strange and expensive way to do it.....I would have thought a better education that the current GO fares are cheaper than the private bus and the trains are faster and more frequent than the bus would have done the trick

 

[nfitz]

Is that really true since the current plan involves GO station - Union and Union is very Presto friendly.

None of the routes leading to Main station take Presto. Many of the subway stations leading to Main Station don't take Presto. If you land at Union station and try and take the 504 streetcar, it doesn't take Presto.

Sure, you could probably cobble something together - but not as quick or simply.

...but this sticker plan seems a response to the bus (or at least the media attention the bus generated)

I don't believe that for a second. TTC, Metrolinx, and councillors started to discuss this before the bus ever got mentioned. Metrolinx promised TTCfare integration back before Labour Day, before the bus was ever mentioned. I believe there was either a TTC or City motion about this before even that.

if (as I believe) this plan is a response to the LV issue of people looking to private transit to deal with a daily commute....this seems a strange and expensive way to do it...

Occam's razor then suggest that this a single private shuttle bus that will likely never get off the ground isn't driving this.

 

[Tuscani01]

I don't believe that for a second. TTC, Metrolinx, and councillors started to discuss this before the bus ever got mentioned. Metrolinx promised TTCfare integration back before Labour Day, before the bus was ever mentioned. I believe there was either a TTC or City motion about this before even that.

Correct. Mike Layton has been negotiating this with Metrolinx and the TTC for a while now. It originally started as a discussion between the Liberty Village Residents' Association and Layton's office over a year ago.

This article from 2013 mentions that the pilot project was already in the works back then:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...d-for-liberty-village-riders/article15025952/

The Residents' Association also announced that the fare would be between the current GO Fare and TTC fare, suggesting they had already worked out a price for this trial last summer.