GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

No offense to our fine servicemen and women; this is not a wise move to me. I really dislike making taxes and fare structures more complex with boutique exceptions and credits.

If you wish to help low income people as a group, ie. means-tested, then so be it, but here current and retired Generals are treated the same as new recruits.

If you simply want transit to be more affordable for everyone, just lower the fare.

Agree. It's a very slippery slope - who will be added next - first responders? ER nurses? We respect lots of fine people who put themselves out for society's benefit.

The reality is that there are not many takers for this benefit - maybe a few reservists using transit to get to the armouries - it's largely value signalling. (Now, if it included OC Transpo, with so many DND staffers riding transit to work.....) But all these little puts and takes complicate the whole question of what transit costs and what a "reasonable" fare should be.

- Paul
Currently wearing a poppy, but transit policy is a different arena.

 

[lenaitch]

Agree. It's a very slippery slope - who will be added next - first responders? ER nurses? We respect lots of fine people who put themselves out for society's benefit.

The reality is that there are not many takers for this benefit - maybe a few reservists using transit to get to the armouries - it's largely value signalling. (Now, if it included OC Transpo, with so many DND staffers riding transit to work.....) But all these little puts and takes complicate the whole question of what transit costs and what a "reasonable" fare should be.

- Paul
Currently wearing a poppy, but transit policy is a different arena.

It will be interesting to see if they use the VAC definition of 'veteran', which is anybody who complete basic training and honourably discharged. When most people think 'veteran' they naturally think 'old'. Using the VAC definition, the passenger could be 20 years old and a Bay St. stockbroker, or any of the professions you list.

According to the press release cited, reservists won't be eligible. I agree that the numbers will be very small given the small CAF presence in the GTA.

 

[sixrings]

Isn’t this the actual idea. It’s a PR stunt. They know there wont actually be many users. But look at us helping the vets. If you lowered the price of all fares that would actually cost the system. Great pr. But super expensive. So go vets.

 

[Fritter]

Isn’t this the actual idea. It’s a PR stunt. They know there wont actually be many users. But look at us helping the vets. If you lowered the price of all fares that would actually cost the system. Great pr. But super expensive. So go vets.

Metrolinx doing something to make them look good without actually doing much of anything at all? That never happens.

 

[reaperexpress]

Isn’t this the actual idea. It’s a PR stunt. They know there wont actually be many users. But look at us helping the vets. If you lowered the price of all fares that would actually cost the system. Great pr. But super expensive. So go vets.

What! Next thing you'll be telling us that running a single trip at 5AM from London to Kitchener on dilapidated tracks for two years around a Provincial election was for political purposes too!

 

[sixrings]

What! Next thing you'll be telling us that running a single trip at 5AM from London to Kitchener on dilapidated tracks for two years around a Provincial election was for political purposes too!

Limited off peak train service was added in 2019 and that is a win pr wise dilapidated tracks or not.

If you doubt how important off peak trips are please consult the Milton go riders.

 

[turbanplanner]

Agree. It's a very slippery slope - who will be added next - first responders? ER nurses? We respect lots of fine people who put themselves out for society's benefit.

The reality is that there are not many takers for this benefit - maybe a few reservists using transit to get to the armouries - it's largely value signalling. (Now, if it included OC Transpo, with so many DND staffers riding transit to work.....) But all these little puts and takes complicate the whole question of what transit costs and what a "reasonable" fare should be.

- Paul
Currently wearing a poppy, but transit policy is a different arena.

In all the years I've taken GO I've seen 2 police officers riding to get around. My understanding is they can ride free because they can "step in" if an emergency happens. TBH even if they let nurses ride for free all the ones I know drive because of the lack of early AM trips.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Isn’t this the actual idea. It’s a PR stunt. They know there wont actually be many users. But look at us helping the vets. If you lowered the price of all fares that would actually cost the system. Great pr. But super expensive. So go vets.

I mean haven't the PCs frozen GO fares for years now? when was the last time GO fares actually increased?

They also lowered the cost of short-distance trips on GO pretty significantly a few years ago too.

Even a fare-freeze over the last few years represents a major reduction in the "real" cost of GO considering cost of living increases.

 

[reaperexpress]

Limited off peak train service was added in 2019 and that is a win pr wise dilapidated tracks or not.

If you doubt how important off peak trips are please consult the Milton go riders.

I don't understand what this comment has to do with my comment

 

[turbanplanner]

I mean haven't the PCs frozen GO fares for years now? when was the last time GO fares actually increased?

They also lowered the cost of short-distance trips on GO pretty significantly a few years ago too.

Even a fare-freeze over the last few years represents a major reduction in the "real" cost of GO considering cost of living increases.

TBF the cost decrease was coupled with a small increase for those taking longer trips.

 

[Northern Light]

I mean haven't the PCs frozen GO fares for years now? when was the last time GO fares actually increased?

They also lowered the cost of short-distance trips on GO pretty significantly a few years ago too.

They increased long distance fares above the rate of inflation as the same time as they reduced the base fare and short-distance fares.

* of course, that decrease came after not adopting the Liberals 2018 budget commitment to reduce GO fares in Toronto to $3, so it was an increase over what had been proposed.

****

There has, however, been no fare increase since, at least in the base fare, which was in 2019.

So yes, that is de facto cut.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I will also of course note their subsidy of GO / TTC fare integration.

Overall the fares which are in the control of the province have experienced some pretty significant decline in cost in real terms. Someone commuting from Burlington to an office at Bloor-Yonge will be paying significantly less today than 5 years ago - that fare today is $10.35. Without fare integration and had GO fares increased with inflation from 2019, that would have cost $15.54 today ($12.24 GO fare, inflation adjusted, plus $3.30 TTC fare).

Not adjusting GO fares to inflation has resulted in an 18% decline in fares in real dollars, plus any savings from people making trips with both GO and TTC.

Additionally - my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall GO fares generally increasing quite a bit faster than inflation under the Liberal government. It seemed like there was a decent sized fare hike every year back then.

 

[Northern Light]

I will also of course note their subsidy of GO / TTC fare integration.

Overall the fares which are in the control of the province have experienced some pretty significant decline in cost in real terms. Someone commuting from Burlington to an office at Bloor-Yonge will be paying significantly less today than 5 years ago - that fare today is $10.35. Without fare integration and had GO fares increased with inflation from 2019, that would have cost $15.54 today ($12.24 GO fare, inflation adjusted, plus $3.30 TTC fare).

True.

Though I would like to see, on fares:

1) Simplification. Way too many zones.

2) If your travel by GO is entirely within a zone (likely one Regional Municipality) it should be the same as the local agency fare.

3) Local Agency fares should be harmonized, likely close to the current TTC level but with a 40-ride cap per month.

4) GO should charge for parking but use that money to lower its longer distance fares as well.

 

[innsertnamehere]

True.

Though I would like to see, on fares:

1) Simplification. Way too many zones.

2) If your travel by GO is entirely within a zone (likely one Regional Municipality) it should be the same as the local agency fare.

3) Local Agency fares should be harmonized, likely close to the current TTC level but with a 40-ride cap per month.

4) GO should charge for parking but use that money to lower its longer distance fares as well.

I'm not particularly opposed to this - especially a nominal GO parking charge more or less equivalent to an equalish cut in GO fares to offset in order to incentivize alternative modes to stations. I.e. $2/day to park, with an average fare decrease of $1 to offset.

Of course that will be wildly politically unpopular and would most certainly never happen with the current provincial government, but alas, one can wish..

I don't think zone simplification is a particularly pressing issue given the automatic calculation of fares. If anything I think it should go the other way, with distance based fares being adopted across the region regardless of transit service used. Of course that would also be politically untenable.. but alas.

 

[Bojaxs]

I'm not particularly opposed to this - especially a nominal GO parking charge more or less equivalent to an equalish cut in GO fares to offset in order to incentivize alternative modes to stations. I.e. $2/day to park, with an average fare decrease of $1 to offset.

I'm not entirely supportive of paid parking for GO station. Ridership will take a hit, and people will just drive to their destination instead. They'll leave earlier to compensate for traffic. If implemented, parking should remain free during off-peak hours and weekends. I've heard many people say one of the biggest benefits of GO is the free parking versus all the paid parking in DT Toronto.

I don't believe making people pay for parking is the solution to get people to take transit to GO stations. The solution is to increase higher order transit in the suburbs with connections to GO stations. Specifically BRT's. "Normal" city buses are not very enticing to people who already own a car.

In North American culture, there's too much stigma with being seen waiting at a "normal" bus stop. Even if people don't have access to their car, they'll opt for Uber/ Lyft instead of taking the bus. I don't believe that stigma entirely exists with BRT's.