GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Bordercollie]

^ thanks. Not that I guess it matters but I had forgotten until you mentioned it that it was a VIA "express train" and not a GO express train.

There was an announcement at Bramalea the other day. "just a reminder that standing, walking or sitting on the yellow line is strictly prohibited and trains can pass at anytime.". As if that should even be necessary.

 

[Bordercollie]

Is there not a need to place an order to replace the D4500's? More double deckers?

 

[APTA-2048]

Is there not a need to place an order to replace the D4500's? More double deckers?

Metrolinx has been dragging their feet in ordering new buses for a while now. They don’t want to get any more double deckers. They want a low floor highway coach, but didn’t like the design from MCI. Essentially what they want doesn’t actually exist. Also the lead times for even just a conventional high floor coach can be very long. They are currently in discussions with manufactures, though.

 

[Bordercollie]

Metrolinx has been dragging their feet in ordering new buses for a while now. They don’t want to get any more double deckers. They want a low floor highway coach, but didn’t like the design from MCI. Essentially what they want doesn’t actually exist. Also the lead times for even just a conventional high floor coach can be very long. They are currently in discussions with manufactures, though.

What's not to like about the D4500crt?

Most routes require double decker capacity though.

 

[APTA-2048]

What's not to like about the D4500crt?

Most routes require double decker capacity though.

They didn’t like how the lowered vestibule on the D45 CRT LE was isolating passengers with disabilities.

The current SuperLos don’t seem to be going anywhere for a while. The first batch is also getting refurbished (and so are some of the older MCIs). I think for some routes if capacity is a problem, increasing service would be better.

 

[Metroscapes]

Metrolinx has been dragging their feet in ordering new buses for a while now. They don’t want to get any more double deckers. They want a low floor highway coach, but didn’t like the design from MCI. Essentially what they want doesn’t actually exist. Also the lead times for even just a conventional high floor coach can be very long. They are currently in discussions with manufactures, though.

What's not to like about the D4500crt?

Most routes require double decker capacity though.

They didn’t like how the lowered vestibule on the D45 CRT LE was isolating passengers with disabilities.

The current SuperLos don’t seem to be going anywhere for a while. The first batch is also getting refurbished (and so are some of the older MCIs). I think for some routes if capacity is a problem, increasing service would be better.

First off, loving the insight here, thanks!

Second, I agree the D45 CRT LE is...weird. Forgive my ignorance, but is there a physical / mechanical reason highway coaches have high floors other than bag storage? I imagine there's a good reason, no way we've gone this far in accessible bus history without someone making a coach variant of an intercity bus layout / load method.

 

[Bordercollie]

First off, loving the insight here, thanks!

Second, I agree the D45 CRT LE is...weird. Forgive my ignorance, but is there a physical / mechanical reason highway coaches have high floors other than bag storage? I imagine there's a good reason, no way we've gone this far in accessible bus history without someone making a coach variant of an intercity bus layout / load method.

Then order high floor single deck buses. D4505?

I guess they don't want to go the Orion V route and order suburban LFS versions...

 

[APTA-2048]

First off, loving the insight here, thanks!

Second, I agree the D45 CRT LE is...weird. Forgive my ignorance, but is there a physical / mechanical reason highway coaches have high floors other than bag storage? I imagine there's a good reason, no way we've gone this far in accessible bus history without someone making a coach variant of an intercity bus layout / load method.

I think it’s because highway coaches typically make a lot less stops than a transit bus, so there’s less chance of needing to quickly load and unload mobility aids. The point about needing baggage space also makes sense.

European manufacturers have something closer to what Metrolinx wants. Examples include the Volvo 8900 and MAN Lion’s City LE. Even closer is the Plaxton Panther LE which is more of a coach and has a little bit of underfloor storage.

 

[Bordercollie]

I think it’s because highway coaches typically make a lot less stops than a transit bus, so there’s less chance of needing to quickly load and unload mobility aids. The point about needing baggage space also makes sense.

European manufacturers have something closer to what Metrolinx wants. Examples include the Volvo 8900 and MAN Lion’s City LE. Even closer is the Plaxton Panther LE which is more of a coach and has a little bit of underfloor storage.

Stretch the LFS frame to 45ft

 

[T3G]

Stretch the LFS frame to 45ft

Ew, no! Can you imagine being stuck on those abominations for 1.5, 2, 3 hours?

 

[Bordercollie]

Ew, no! Can you imagine being stuck on those abominations for 1.5, 2, 3 hours?

Better seats would help. But low floor buses in general have a hard ride. The other issue is maintaining highway speed. They would need tweak the gearing.

 

[Metroscapes]

Better seats would help. But low floor buses in general have a hard ride. The other issue is maintaining highway speed. They would need tweak the gearing.

Not to mention poorer doors that don't need to open/shut as frequently, they whistle like crazy on the highway. Guelph Transit runs a route using NOVA LFS briefly on Highway 6, it would not be good doing that on a longer run.

If baggage is the main issue, I would question how often they carry passengers needing it. Maybe during weekends before/after holidays when university students go home, but otherwise, it seems rarer these days beyond a backpack.

 

[Bordercollie]

Not to mention poorer doors that don't need to open/shut as frequently, they whistle like crazy on the highway. Guelph Transit runs a route using NOVA LFS briefly on Highway 6, it would not be good doing that on a longer run.

If baggage is the main issue, I would question how often they carry passengers needing it. Maybe during weekends before/after holidays when university students go home, but otherwise, it seems rarer these days beyond a backpack.

Can you not get plug style door's?

 

[T3G]

Better seats would help. But low floor buses in general have a hard ride. The other issue is maintaining highway speed. They would need tweak the gearing.

If the low floor is a factor, I don't think it's a significant one. Not all LF buses are created equal, with the exception of a few basket cases the Orion VIIs provide a very good ride despite their advanced age, much more so than the far younger Novas. So do York Region's Van Hools. And for a more exotic example, I have had the pleasure of riding 14 year old Mercedes-Benz CapaCity artics in Bratislava which despite their age also ride very smoothly.

The LFS just has a very poor suspension. They are not the only ones, the GO double deckers are no better. The low floor section, between its ride quality and lack of sound insulation, is horrendous. So to that end, you would need far better seats than the current commuter seats on GO buses if you wanted a suburban LFS to provide anything faintly resembling a comfortable ride.

 

[reaperexpress]

I certainly concur that dedicated passing tracks are not coming to every GO station in the system, or even most, in the near to medium term. But I think its reasonable enough to imagine that can come to more stations, and strategic choices may be deliverable and inordinately beneficial, indeed for reasons other than passenger safety as well.

All recent station designs I've seen have included space for either a passing track (Downsview Park, Rutherford, Maple, etc.) or a gauntlet track on one side (Milliken, Agincourt, etc.). This is purely to accommodate wide freight trains once the platforms are raised for level boarding. Express trains would not necessarily use the passing track, and would definitely not use the gauntlet track since it would be designed for a low speed.

A simpler but very constraining patch would be to impose speed restrictions on every non stopping train at platforms.... but that would wreak havoc on scheduling and dispatching.

My understanding is that they've already implemented speed restrictions on the platform tracks at Exhibition due to it regularly exceeding the recommended crowding levels. That's one of only two station in the network that already have two express tracks without platforms, though construction is already underway to add platforms on those tracks. For the record, the other station with two express tracks is Etobicoke North. Its replacement station is also planned to have platforms on all tracks.

Humber Bay (Park Lawn) station is planned to have side platforms with two express tracks in the centre. I've always thought that this same arrangment should have been included in Long Branch station's current upgrade works, instead of having platforms on the express track even though express trains don't stop at Long Branch.

How I would have rebuilt Long Branch: (Existing platform in grey, new south platform in beige)

Some are wooden, and nobody responds well to being corrected, but some are real people people.....and as someone who spends their Saturdays (as a volunteer) asking people to stand behind a yellow line, there is nothing like a smile and a personal connection to get someone's attention.

I think part of the issue is that the yellow line is too close for full-speed trains. I was at Rouge Hill and a parent was telling their kid to stay behind the yellow line, and I commented that they shouldn't even be getting close to the yellow line let alone crossing it, since I knew there was going to be an express train passing through in a few minutes. Sure enough they were figuratively blown away by how fast that train passed through (it was around 130 km/h) and the strong winds that accompanied it. Long Branch is even faster - in the absence of construction trains regularly blast through there at 150 km/h.

Here's a clip of an express train going 148 km/h through Appleby station, just imagine if you were standing right next to the yellow line:

While waiting for a train at Baie D'Urfé Exo station a couple weeks ago there was a guy on his phone right next to the tracks (but still outside of the yellow line) so I told him 'attention le train arrive' and he just looked at me and rolled his eyes, before staring back at his phone as the train pulled in maybe 50 cm in front of his nose. Though he was outside of the yellow line, he was easily close enough to make locomotive's operator nervous.