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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Northern Light said:
To my understanding, the internal numbers being bandied about for 2WAD service on Milton had a budget figure of ~1B as of 18 months ago.

Given construction inflation since then, a budget of 1.5B might be more more realistic.

I'm uncertain what infrastructure that was to buy; but I am given to understand the target was 2WAD at 30M off-peak for the investment.
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Seems like a relatively paltry sum for increasing transit accessibility for a broad swath of central Mississauga and Milton, not to mention unlocking more value of the billions the province invested in HuLRT and upgrades to Cooksville GO. And more cynically, these ridings are swing ridings, both provincially and federally.

It strikes me as odd how little upgrades to the Milton line are in planning documents. It's fine if it is not a priority, but to not really mention it as something that is being contemplated is odd. I don't think it's in the RTP, from what I recall. So, in the next 30 years, we don't think a ~1B investment in regional connectivity for Mississauga is warranted?
 
afransen said:
Seems like a relatively paltry sum for increasing transit accessibility for a broad swath of central Mississauga and Milton, not to mention unlocking more value of the billions the province invested in HuLRT and upgrades to Cooksville GO. And more cynically, these ridings are swing ridings, both provincially and federally.

It strikes me as odd how little upgrades to the Milton line are in planning documents. It's fine if it is not a priority, but to not really mention it as something that is being contemplated is odd. I don't think it's in the RTP, from what I recall. So, in the next 30 years, we don't think a ~1B investment in regional connectivity for Mississauga is warranted?
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I really believe that its the fact that CP has to do the work themselves, building the tracks etc in their corridor, and Metrolinx has been burned hard in the past.

www.thestar.com

Metrolinx under fire for CN, CP deals

Transit agency’s seen as being in weak bargaining position, but auditor general’s report not alone in criticism.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
 
crs1026 said:
If you want close-headway 2WAD, no doubt. I wonder what a continuous third track and some passing tracks might accomplish, however..

Six major Grade Separations (Wolfedale, Erindale Station, Mississauga Rd, Thomas St, 9th Line, 10th Line) to address the stopped freight issues, let alone safety for increased frequency. And a new bridge span over the Credit. Several new platforms with underpasses at various stations. Never mind any land acquisition and the track itself. I'm sure that would hit a billion easily.

Having said that, there are already lots of grade separations and most do have space for additional tracks already in place. It's not a greenfield, more a matter of connecting the existing dots. In some ways, there is an opportunity to extract value from a lot of past investment by the municipality and province.

But difficult to achieve on the existing plant - the added investment is essential imho.

- Paul
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I can't help but think that - and especially with the closing of Obico - that it would be a far, far better use of public monies to just simply rebuild all of the GO facilities to keep the trains on the south side of the Galt Sub, rather than have them cross over to the north between West Toronto and Kipling.

Yes, corporate inertia is a thing ("but we've always done it this way!!1!"), but there needs to always be some room for a sober, second thought.

Willybru21 said:
You seem to know quite a lot about what was extra service was planned right before COVID shut everything down, can you tell us any other additional services that were planned for early 2020 before COVID got in the way?
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Some of the highlights were:
- limited weekend service on the Milton Line
- limited weekend service on the Richmond Hill Line
- hourly weekend service to Mount Pleasant on the Kitchener Line
- 11th round trip weekdays on the Milton Line
- conversion of a morning Kitchener train to an express, with an additional local train starting from Bramalea

Keep in mind that these had been signed off by the highest levels within Metrolinx, but had not been shared yet with operating staff. And in fact, some of these improvements had been scheduled to go into effect late in 2019, but had been cancelled late in the process.

Dan
 
afransen said:
Seems like a relatively paltry sum for increasing transit accessibility for a broad swath of central Mississauga and Milton, not to mention unlocking more value of the billions the province invested in HuLRT and upgrades to Cooksville GO. And more cynically, these ridings are swing ridings, both provincially and federally.

It strikes me as odd how little upgrades to the Milton line are in planning documents. It's fine if it is not a priority, but to not really mention it as something that is being contemplated is odd. I don't think it's in the RTP, from what I recall. So, in the next 30 years, we don't think a ~1B investment in regional connectivity for Mississauga is warranted?
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It is in the RTP. By 2041, Milton is supposed to be part of the 15-minute GO network, ie the electrified portions, which will now see better than 15-minute service. So are ‘extensions’ to Hamilton Centre, Mount Pleasant and Mt. Joy (I think). We just can’t build it all at once.
 
Sunnyside said:
It is in the RTP. By 2041, Milton is supposed to be part of the 15-minute GO network, ie the electrified portions, which will now see better than 15-minute service. So are ‘extensions’ to Hamilton Centre, Mount Pleasant and Mt. Joy (I think). We just can’t build it all at once.
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Perhaps in the 2018 document from the Liberal government. In the 2022 update, there is no specific commitment on this, only to "Continue to work with freight rail partners to seek options to explore GO Rail service enhancements to[...]Milton". That could be as little as adding peak trains.

 
afransen said:
Perhaps in the 2018 document from the Liberal government. In the 2022 update, there is no specific commitment on this, only to "Continue to work with freight rail partners to seek options to explore GO Rail service enhancements to[...]Milton". That could be as little as adding peak trains.

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I’m aware of the GGH plan, and yes it seems to lack any mention of Milton. However I don’t think it’s clear this is actually an update to 2018’s 2041 RTP from Metrolinx, as this isn’t from them- it’s from IO. I don’t know what the document is supposed to be for from a transit planning perspective, but I read it as identifying corridors that will now receive more attention than they were prior. I find it hard to believe this much of the 2041 RTP is being wiped away.

Apologies if I’m wrong about the legitimacy of the 2051 GGH plan, but I’ve simply yet to read or see anyone explain how it interfaces with the 2041 RTP. Maybe it’s in there and I didn’t see it. I’ll double check now, but I’m going to post this comment anyway (lol).
 
the 2051 GGH plan is an MTO Document and thus mostly focused on planned road projects. It was also significantly more political than the RTP was.

These documents are vague in general anyway and generally shouldn't be relied on for priorities for the government. They give an idea of what the next potential list of transit projects for the 2030's may be, but we ultimately don't know.
 
innsertnamehere said:
the 2051 GGH plan is an MTO Document and thus mostly focused on planned road projects. It was also significantly more political than the RTP was.

These documents are vague in general anyway and generally shouldn't be relied on for priorities for the government. They give an idea of what the next potential list of transit projects for the 2030's may be, but we ultimately don't know.
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The vagueness can become even worse now that GO/Metrolinx considers the Lakeshore West Line as part of Route 21 Milton.


You can see in the Milton Line schedules they show the Lakeshore West Line and consider it the alternative to offering all day service.

So this could be interpreted as what they mean to offer this service, sadly.
 
innsertnamehere said:
the 2051 GGH plan is an MTO Document and thus mostly focused on planned road projects. It was also significantly more political than the RTP was.

These documents are vague in general anyway and generally shouldn't be relied on for priorities for the government. They give an idea of what the next potential list of transit projects for the 2030's may be, but we ultimately don't know.
Click to expand...

Speaking of the RTP, there is a reference to it in the planning report for the upcoming board meeting.

Work is set to begin to update the Regional Transportation Plan (RTP), published in 2018, to
reflect notable changes in planning context over the past few years including our expanded
geographic mandate, updated government direction on housing and growth, and changes in
travel behaviour. Through this initiative, we will extend the plan to 2051. By doing so, it will
allow Metrolinx to: assess the progress made over the past five years; consider emerging
trends; reaffirm our commitment to equity and Indigenous engagement; recommend
prioritized actions for the next 5-10 years to connect communities; and lastly, to implement an
integrated, sustainable regional transit network for all. This will be supported by new technical
analysis and input from a wide range of internal and external stakeholders. An internal project
launch workshop with teams across the organization is planned for later this month. Externals takeholder and Indigenous engagement are planned for the summer and fall of this year.
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Does anyone else love how @Allandale25 just quietly sneaks in that the Mx Agenda for next week's meeting is up?

LOL

Thought this was interesting:

1687556528024.png

From: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/...linx/Item_12_-_Let_s_Get_Ready_to_Ride_En.pdf

I would like to see that compared with what percentage of pre-pandemic service is actually operating.

Weekday, Mid-day Lakeshore service is definitely at 50% of what it was in core areas (15M) which naturally depresses the ridership number.

Same with less frequent/convenient rush hour services.
 
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Allandale25 said:
Speaking of the RTP, there is a reference to it in the planning report for the upcoming board meeting.
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Very, very interesting. Glad you shared this. These RTPs really do tell us alot, if even if they aren't a perfect reflection of reality. I for one am quite excited, seeing as many municipalities are currently updating their older TMPs right now. York Region just updated theirs last year, I believe. Hamilton has finished part of it. Halton is updating it now. Niagara now has an integrated system, which might finally result in something interesting. But this will be a long process, without results until at least 2025. Probably a good time to get involved in some meetings hosted by Metrolinx if you have a particular thing you'd like to advocate for.
 
Northern Light said:
Does anyone else love how @Allandale25 just quietly sneaks in that the Mx Agenda for next week's meeting is up?

LOL

Thought his was interesting:

View attachment 487503
From: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/...linx/Item_12_-_Let_s_Get_Ready_to_Ride_En.pdf

I would like to see that compared with what percentage of pre-pandemic service is actually operating.

Weekday, Mid-day Lakeshore service is definitely at 50% of what it was in core areas (15M) which naturally depresses the ridership number.

Same with less frequent/convenient rush hour services.
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In fairness I knew the material was up when I saw this tweet. Meant to credit them but forgot. Meant to also provide the link but got distracted. So thanks for providing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672281746228887553
 
Just digested the ML Annual Report which is going to the Board next week.

One interesting factoid that I found in the ML Annual Report is the expiry dates for the Master Agreements with CP and CN. (pgs91-92) and with various others (PNR, Alstom, TTR)

The ML agreement with CN expires July 31 2023. The ML agreement with CP expires Dec 31 2024. Those dates give an indication of when ML has the opportunity to reset the relationship (as opposed to one-of service change proposals).

There are comments (pg 30) about a new service plan plan for electrified service to Barrie, and about ML "approaching" agreement with CN on Halton Sub enhancements and consultation requirements. (They have been saying that since 2018, but maybe this time.....)

There is also an interesting comment (pg30) about planning to address freight requirements on the Guelph Sub in light of future service plans (I have been hearing a rumour that the design for the new trackage at Guelph is getting pushback from GEXR and CN in light of their needs)

As @Northern Light light has pointed out, we UTers spend a lot of energy complaining here without actually taking action for advocacy or input. I'm not likely to become known for writing a deputation on every issue out there, but the Annual Report is a good opportunity to put some things on record without becoming a "repeat customer" with ML.

I'm trying to distill my thoughts on the Annual Report into a letter to the ML Board, but that's beyond this short post. Hopefully done in time to put on record with the Board.

- Paul
 
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