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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

crs1026 said:
^There are a hundred and one reasons why first responders do what they do in the way they do it. Don’t assume that the solution is as simple as bringing another train to the scene.

Having said that, I do agree that at some length of time, the sheltering in place on the affected train ceases to be a sound strategy and the situation becomes a “rescue” proposition. There should be a protocol that automatically sends first responders to the disabled train after x hours of delay.

- Paul
Click to expand...
I'm sure that the police were onsite including GO transit officials. Why couldn't they have paramedics on site incase someone on the train had a medical emergency?

Why did it only take an hour for the investigation to be completed but another 4 hours to move the train? Seems to me like maybe there was a shift change at midnight and they didn't pass on the information to the next shift (at the dispatch center).

Either that or it's pure incompetence.
 
I post this without verification, but, from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/xar4bp/_/invev8m

“I was on this train and it was almost worse than they describe in the article. I realize someone lost their life and that is sad, but this was an absolutely awful experience.

The train left Exhibition completely full (a music festival of 50K people had just let out, so it was standing room only) at 11:02pm and I got to my stop at West Harbour at 4:23am. It took 3 separate trains to make the trip as we had to switch at Mimico because people were trying to rip open the doors while we were stopped, and then we had to switch again at Oakville, where they made us wait at the platform at 3:25 am with no information.

During the initial stop there was almost no info given over the speaker over the 3+ hours. The driver made maybe 3 announcements (very quietly I may add) including one that said "alright, we'll be moving in 3 minutes" and then we didn't move for 45+ minutes. The only way any of us knew what was happening was through twitter.

People were laying all over the ground, everyone was vaping and some were starting to fight with each other. The emergency alarm was going off for at least 2 hours straight.

…

And to top it off, when we got to West Harbour all of the platform doors were locked so we were stuck on the platform. We all had to figure out we could walk up the parking ramp at the far end to get out to street level.

And according to the GO Transit site I can't get a refund for the trip because I tapped on 17 minutes before my train ride and the cutoff is 15 minutes prior. (they changed the time of this train from the usual 10:52 to 11:02) Awesome.”
 
allengeorge said:
I post this without verification, but, from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/xar4bp/_/invev8m

“I was on this train and it was almost worse than they describe in the article. I realize someone lost their life and that is sad, but this was an absolutely awful experience.

The train left Exhibition completely full (a music festival of 50K people had just let out, so it was standing room only) at 11:02pm and I got to my stop at West Harbour at 4:23am. It took 3 separate trains to make the trip as we had to switch at Mimico because people were trying to rip open the doors while we were stopped, and then we had to switch again at Oakville, where they made us wait at the platform at 3:25 am with no information.

During the initial stop there was almost no info given over the speaker over the 3+ hours. The driver made maybe 3 announcements (very quietly I may add) including one that said "alright, we'll be moving in 3 minutes" and then we didn't move for 45+ minutes. The only way any of us knew what was happening was through twitter.

People were laying all over the ground, everyone was vaping and some were starting to fight with each other. The emergency alarm was going off for at least 2 hours straight.

…

And to top it off, when we got to West Harbour all of the platform doors were locked so we were stuck on the platform. We all had to figure out we could walk up the parking ramp at the far end to get out to street level.

And according to the GO Transit site I can't get a refund for the trip because I tapped on 17 minutes before my train ride and the cutoff is 15 minutes prior. (they changed the time of this train from the usual 10:52 to 11:02) Awesome.”
Click to expand...
But if the train was delayed more than 15 minutes you can get a refund can't you?

Why didn't the original train continue all the way to West Harbor? If it was a crew issue they could have swapped crews not passengers.

Seems like total disorganization and lack of urgency to resolve the situation.
 
allengeorge said:
I post this without verification, but, from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/xar4bp/_/invev8m

“I was on this train and it was almost worse than they describe in the article. I realize someone lost their life and that is sad, but this was an absolutely awful experience.

The train left Exhibition completely full (a music festival of 50K people had just let out, so it was standing room only) at 11:02pm and I got to my stop at West Harbour at 4:23am. It took 3 separate trains to make the trip as we had to switch at Mimico because people were trying to rip open the doors while we were stopped, and then we had to switch again at Oakville, where they made us wait at the platform at 3:25 am with no information.

During the initial stop there was almost no info given over the speaker over the 3+ hours. The driver made maybe 3 announcements (very quietly I may add) including one that said "alright, we'll be moving in 3 minutes" and then we didn't move for 45+ minutes. The only way any of us knew what was happening was through twitter.

People were laying all over the ground, everyone was vaping and some were starting to fight with each other. The emergency alarm was going off for at least 2 hours straight.

…

And to top it off, when we got to West Harbour all of the platform doors were locked so we were stuck on the platform. We all had to figure out we could walk up the parking ramp at the far end to get out to street level.

And according to the GO Transit site I can't get a refund for the trip because I tapped on 17 minutes before my train ride and the cutoff is 15 minutes prior. (they changed the time of this train from the usual 10:52 to 11:02) Awesome.”
Click to expand...
I’m impressed the passengers were as well behaved as they were lol.
 
Incidents like this and the VIA train delay earlier in the week demonstrate that train passengers deserve a “bill of rights” similar to airline passengers.

Ordering people on a crowded train to stay on when the power fails and toilets start to smell becomes a human rights issue and there needs to be a policy of allowing people fresh air. Therefore exciting the train even if it’s not by a station.

I hope there’s a lawsuit after this that forces the railway companies to do something after X amount of time. Payments, a bus or train standby rescue, something to resolve this quickly.
 
I was on a train that hit someone just before Guildwood a few years ago. Luckily it wasn’t crowded and the CSA was quite good at keeping us informed. It did, however, take about 2 to 3 hours before we could get off at Guildwood and wait for another train.
 
crs1026 said:
^There are a hundred and one reasons why first responders do what they do in the way they do it. Don’t assume that the solution is as simple as bringing another train to the scene.

Having said that, I do agree that at some length of time, the sheltering in place on the affected train ceases to be a sound strategy and the situation becomes a “rescue” proposition. There should be a protocol that automatically sends first responders to the disabled train after x hours of delay.

- Paul
Click to expand...
I'm reading between the lines of the story that the track-level fatality involved that train. Clearly, it sounds like MX customer service and communications response was horrible, but I doubt any train movement on any of the tracks in that area would be considered safe while first responders are working at and around the scene, particularly at night. Unlike railway employees, first responders aren't specifically trained how to function around trains.
 
lenaitch said:
I'm reading between the lines of the story that the track-level fatality involved that train. Clearly, it sounds like MX customer service and communications response was horrible, but I doubt any train movement on any of the tracks in that area would be considered safe while first responders are working at and around the scene, particularly at night. Unlike railway employees, first responders aren't specifically trained how to function around trains.
Click to expand...

Yes, but one could still evacuate the train, from the opposite side as the fatality, to give people fresh air, and get them down to street level or the nearest station platform, depending on distance. (particularly if all rail traffic is frozen)
 
Northern Light said:
Yes, but one could still evacuate the train, from the opposite side as the fatality, to give people fresh air, and get them down to street level or the nearest station platform, depending on distance. (particularly if all rail traffic is frozen)
Click to expand...
I wonder if clean up of the scene complicated things. A train hitting a person is quite messy to say the least. I recall one incident that apparently sent body parts down most of the platform.
 
Northern Light said:
Yes, but one could still evacuate the train, from the opposite side as the fatality, to give people fresh air, and get them down to street level or the nearest station platform, depending on distance. (particularly if all rail traffic is frozen)
Click to expand...
True, but I was responding to the suggestion that they could sidle another train up on an adjacent track to off-load.

Depending on the distances involved, having hundreds of people stumbling along the ballast in the dark or trying to get to a fenceline safely (railways aren't particularly noted for the cleanliness of their properties), in street shoes, would probably take a lot of staff that might not be available in the wee hours. Unlike the floor of a subway tunnel which is relatively smooth and flat, and might have at least emergency lighting operating, a RR ROW is stone, grass, ditches, etc. I'm not saying that such contingency planning shouldn't be done, but not ad hoc in the middle of an incident. Depending on who actually owns the particular piece of ROW might complicate who can authorize people to wander around on it.

Edit to add: MX would have a liability to ensure that everyone who exited the train actually got to some kind of muster point, to ensure that someone wasn't left behind, passed out in a ditch or still wandering the ROW. In 1989, a United Airways flight cartwheeled off the runway in Sioux City Iowa and into a corn field. In the incident response study, one of the complicating factors in the casualty determination was that a couple of the survivors walked out of the scene and into the terminal and tried to book another flight (I don't remember if they were successful, seeing as they would likely be a tad disheveled and perhaps still smouldering). I suppose that speaks to the tenacity of the professional traveller just wanting to get the heck home.
 
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