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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

ARG1 said:
Talk to me when we're back to running 12 car trains more than every 15 mins. Peak hour fares only make sense when there is so much demand that the current infrastructure simply can't handle the demand, and as such there is a need to try and push people to take the train at less busy times if possible. GO is nowhere near this point. Whilst we have hit 100% of our weekend ridership, our weekday ridership is at 45% pre-pandemic. This doesn't even begin to scratch the fact that within the next year or 2 we're going to see our single track lines begin double track service which should further improve frequencies, and we haven't hit our theoretical maximum headways on the Lakeshore + Kitchener Lines.

Let's also not ignore the fact that GO is desperately trying to bring back it's rush hour commuter crowd by offering incentives like unlimited passes: https://globalnews.ca/news/8773488/metrolinx-presto-back-work-pass-covid/. Whilst I am generally more optimistic when it comes to transit usage in a post-COVID world than most others, let's not kid ourselves and pretend that COVID hasn't done a major impact in the rush hour market, and has naturally distributed transit passengers from rush hours to off peak times on its own. So no, there isn't a need for any off peak discount or peak hour tariff anytime soon.
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It's not only a question of track capacity, it's also a question of operating cost. I'd rather we run a more cost-efficient system so that we can run more train service within a given operating budget.

Trains which only run a single peak-period round trip per day are a very expensive per daily round trip. All of the purchase/ownership/storage/maintenance/crewing costs of the train are divided by a single train trip.

If instead of adding peak-period extra service you lengthen trains to accommodate rush hour surges, then you still increase operating costs, because now you are running slow, fuel-guzzling trains all day when that isn't necessary.
 
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IRT_BMT_IND said:
If anything it would make more sense for GO to extend the 25 Waterloo buses to Kipling using the transitway, it would make travel between Toronto and KW much easier now that Greyhound is gone.
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The 29 does serve Kipling but there should definitely be other routes that go there as well. Maybe we could get a route coming from 407 terminal which would not only make the subway choice way more convenient but also in case there's any closures on a certain section.

JasonParis said:
I do think there is some logic in Milton and some other western GO bus routes running through Kipling to USBT, even if it adds 10-minutes. It builds some resiliency in the service due to downtown traffic delays, but would also acknowledge that not everyone is going to Union. Getting to Yonge/Bloor, Midtown, etc. would be faster via Kipling.
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Another option could be to either allow GO weekend passes on UP Express and run 15 min service all day, and dropping passengers off at Viscount so they can just take the link train to the UP platforms, or just introduce the long awaited weekend service to/from Bramalea and just drop most western GO bus routes there. But the downside for either option is that it wouldn't make sense for the local 21 bus that heads to Square One and Meadowvale to detour all the way there, so maybe it could be the sole route that heads to Kipling/Port Credit instead.
 
JasonParis said:
I think this makes even more sense if UPX gets merged into regular GO (RER) operations too.
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It's frankly insane that UPX and GO still have separate Presto systems. They could easily integrate the UP Fares into the GO Presto system by making a separate fare zone for the UPX stations at Union and at Pearson.

I don't know how Metrolinx expects us to trust them with integrating fare systems between other agencies, when they can't even integrate the two agencies they own themselves.
 
generalcanada said:
blog.metrolinx.com

Metrolinx Press Room

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12 car trains coming back for majority of the lines
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Good ol' GO Transit, where not even filling 10-car double-decker trains is enough to warrant increasing frequency...

Just a reminder that the below table is still accurate...
capture-jpg.405468


Do Canadians think that the world's great S-Bahn/RER systems waited until they had this level of ridership before introducing the frequent service which has subsequently made them succesful?
 
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reaperexpress said:
Good ol' GO Transit, where a full 10-car double-decker train still isn't enough to warrant increasing frequency...
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Some Barrie and Kitchener Line GO Train trips will also increase from six and 10 car lengths to 12 cars long.
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Ok, at least for Barrie and maybe Kitchener I can understand since there are only so many trains you can run. But Lakeshore? Come on, is the driver shortage really that bad?
 
In Brampton today, the main parking lot was nearly full, with the exception of the reserved monthly parking spots, which were mostly empty. The small lot off of Main Street was reopened (it was closed, like many secondary GO lots, for the last two years) and that lot was half full.

So it appears that ridership is slowly returning.
 
ARG1 said:
Ok, at least for Barrie and maybe Kitchener I can understand since there are only so many trains you can run. But Lakeshore? Come on, is the driver shortage really that bad?
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Even on Barrie and Kitchener, the number of trains they can run during peak periods is at least double the current number, based on the September 2021 timetables...
 
reaperexpress said:
Even on Barrie and Kitchener, the number of trains they can run during peak periods is at least double the current number, based on the September 2021 timetables...
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The reason I sort of waived that detail off is because of this line:

Starting this month, many GO Train trips on the Lakeshore East and Lakeshore West Lines will increase in length from 10-car trains to 12-car trains. This includes some weekday and all weekend trips.

Some Barrie and Kitchener Line GO Train trips will also increase from six and 10 car lengths to 12 cars long.
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The way I interpreted this is that a good chunk of the traffic that needs relieving is weekend trips and a smaller fraction of off peak and peak hour trips, which in the case of Barrie the former 2 are completely maxed out. Unfortunately this article is very detail shy about where and when the increased train lengths will be used, and depending on those variables, the state the system was in last september is sort of irrelevant. This is anecdotal, but I have a friend who lives in Kitchener who endlessly complains about how busy the GO train is at Kitchener already, and looking at the chart you provided, Kitchener is running just as frequently as it was back then minus the express stops. As such increasing the amount of coaches makes a lot of sense. Overall it really depends on how much doubt you're willing to give to Metrolinx.
 
ARG1 said:
The way I interpreted this is that a good chunk of the traffic that needs relieving is weekend trips and a smaller fraction of off peak and peak hour trips, which in the case of Barrie the former 2 are completely maxed out. Unfortunately this article is very detail shy about where and when the increased train lengths will be used, and depending on those variables, the state the system was in last september is sort of irrelevant.
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That comment does suggest that some of the lengthened trains would be off-peak trains but based on my experience with off-peak Barrie trains I don't imagine much of the crowding is off-peak. Ridership has been steadily increasing but apart from during special events, it wasn't filling a 6-car trains, let alone 10 car trains.

I'd love to be proven wrong though, it's always nice to hear about successful off-peak services.
ARG1 said:
This is anecdotal, but I have a friend who lives in Kitchener who endlessly complains about how busy the GO train is at Kitchener already, and looking at the chart you provided, Kitchener is running just as frequently as it was back then minus the express stops. As such increasing the amount of coaches makes a lot of sense. Overall it really depends on how much doubt you're willing to give to Metrolinx.
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In 2019 the Kitchener line had 4tph peak and 2tph counter-peak. Currently it has 2tph peak and no trains counter-peak. I wouldn't call that "just as frequent".

The crowding on the Kitchener line is not at Kitchener, it's at Union. When customers talk about crowding in Kitchener it just means that they have needed to sit next to someone.
 
ARG1 said:
Come on, is the driver shortage really that bad?
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In a word - yes.

Head office is pressing Alstom to be ready for a large round of sweeping changes (and mainly improvements) to service in September.

And yet, word on the ground is that they may have to be postponed until the new year - Alstom is having trouble staffing trains now as it is.

Dan
 
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