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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Dutch intercity trains have the same general layout as GO trains, with a "quiet zone" upstairs, and a "social zone" on the middle and lower levels. In the Quiet Zone (a.k.a. upstairs), there are almost entirely pairs of seats. There's no particular need for quads, because if people are travelling in a group, they will want to chat, and should sit in the social zone downstairs. And if people aren't travelling in a group, they'd rather have extra legroom, a seatback tray table and not awkwardly face a stranger.
This helps passively enforce the different zones of the train by leveraging the preferences of different groups of travellers. The zones themelves help people have the train experience they prefer, whether that be fun and social or quiet and relaxing.
Video I made on this topic, already posted here a few times (so if you think you've already seen it, you probably have)
So here's my take:
Current top floor (18 quads, 0 pairs):
S→←→←→←→←→←→←→←→←→←S
S→←→←→←→←→←→←→←→←→←S
Proposed top floor (2 quads, 32 pairs):
S→→→→→→→→→←←←←←←←←←S
S→→→→→→→→→←←←←←←←←←S
Current lower floor (18 quads, 2 pairs):
→←→←SSD→←→←→←→←→←DS←→←→←
→←→←→SD→←→←→←→←→←DSS→←→←
Proposed lower floor (no change)
→←→←SSD→←→←→←→←→←DS←→←→←
→←→←→SD→←→←→←→←→←DSS→←→←
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ShonTron
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Rainbow, you cross as a vehicle - I’ve done it, it’s not too bad. On the Peace Bridge, you’re expected to walk your bike on the sidewalk.
Bicycles are also permitted on the Queenston-Lewiston Bridge, but I wouldn’t do it, as that’s a major truck route.
dowlingm
Senior Member
AMA tweeted that there were 3 bike coaches in the consist. One of the things to bear in mind is that additional frequencies to Niagara may depend on Welland Canal slots, and where and when trains can pass east of Hamilton.
Northern Light
Superstar
Yes, but they previously had one more frequency than what they are currently running, so that one should be an easy add-back.
Given that the canal must allocate some time for trains to be early/late, its also possible they could double-pump the most popular run of the day (run two trains in close succession through the same time allocation over the canal.)
The option would also exist in that case to serve an alternate station set with only Niagara and Union being kept in common.
beatle04
Active Member
I'm not sure if the current track would make it possible to do this. The station area isn't double tracked so Train 1 would need to come in, unload, load, leave, and travel a fair distance to reach the double track where Train 2 could then come into the station (which defeats the whole purpose of the trains running close together).
The alternate I guess would be Train 1 parks partially on the bridge crossing to the USA after unloading to allow Train 2 to come into the station but I somehow doubt the border agencies would allow that.
EDIT: Looks like the station area does actually have a second track but it's very overgrown and doesn't have platform that passengers could use. I guess with some refurb and money Metrolinx could make your idea happen...but this is Metrolinx we're talking about so no way they spend a penny on the Niagara station.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
A typical 12-car GO train has around 1800 seats. In a bicycle coach, the 8 quads (32 seats) on the lower level are removed in favour of bicycle racks. So a 12-car train including 3 bicycle coaches has around 1700 seats.
The Welland canal is certainly a limitation, though I'm not sure exactly how it works. Does Metrolinx pay the St Lawrence Seaway Authority for each bridge lowering?
There is actually a fairly large amount of double track east of Hamilton, but the main problem is that St. Catharines station only has a platform on the north track and I don't think there's anywhere within that double-tracked segment where trains can cross over to serve the platform. So that 22km double-tracked segment is unavailable for passenger trains.
Existing double track shown in green
If there were a second platform at St Catharines station, or even just a crossover just east of St Catharines station, they could run hourly service with the existing track configuration. And they could time the trains to cross the canal simultaneously, to reduce the number of bridge lowerings required.
In the absence of a second platform at St. Catharines, frequency is limited to the time it takes to do a round trip from Grimsby to Niagara, which is:
45 min Grimsby - Niagara Falls
15+ min terminal time
45 min Niagara Falls - Grimsby
= 1h45 minimum headway
So they could run a 2 hour headway with up to 30 minute dwell in Niagara Falls.
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Richard White
Senior Member
This was the case originally. You had to pay the full distance based fare when the service originated. I believe it was close to 40 dollars return (17 each way) per adult.
Then they decided to promote the service and tourism to the falls. Doing this resulted in a discounted fare arrangement between WEGO and Metrolinx wherein you could pay 25 dollars return with 48 hours free transit in Niagara Falls. Now, in addition to all that you have the $10 passes.
The first year the service took place, it was lightly used given the high costs so the level of service (which was similar to now) was adequate. It was mostly used by those looking to bike in the escarpment or single people (sometimes couples) looking to have a day out in the falls.
The trains were mostly empty because it was not cost effective for most families or groups.
When I heard they REDUCED service it made zero sense to me. These trains are crammed on a good day, this was a boneheaded move though I suspect they may have a hard time crewing them. I cannot say for certain but @smallspy may know more.
The Welland Canal has always been a problem for this service. With all the passenger volume delays, along with everything else I have been on more than a few trains that get stuck at the canal.
It is anywhere between 20 mins and an hour when trains get stopped at the canal due to boat traffic. It adds up and makes the service less reliable in both directions.
I recall last year I was almost 2 hours late getting back to Toronto because of delays in the train arriving to Niagara and then more delays on the way back. It was almost an hour late getting to Niagara and then delayed another hour on the way back.
There is a second track but you are right it is heavily overgrown. No doubt it is safe to use but it is not suitable for passenger use, it is more of a siding.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
It sounds crazy, but it might just work.
The busiest train of the day is the 8:51 from Union. You could add a non-stop trip from Union to Niagara Falls departing around 9:15, and it would almost catch up to the existing trip around St. Catharines. Assuming the faster service skips St. Catharines, it can use the south track, enabling the two trains to cross the canal side-by-side if the existing train is late.
The line then narrows to a single track, so if the existing train was late, then the fast train does need to wait for it, but at least the bridge can go up and let boat traffic resume in the meantime.
Niagara Falls station has a 446-metre platform, which is just enough to fit two 8-car trains with a 9-metre gap between them.
446m platform
- 8x 26m coaches
- 1x 21m locomotive
- 8x 26m coaches (locomotive doesn't need to be on the platform)
= 9m gap
Operating on the same platform requires operating within the same signal block, and thus at an extremely slow speed. But it's not like trains fly into Niagara Falls station anyway.
Stopping a second train on the platform also requires a second raised mini-platform.
Although it may be technically be possible to run a pair of trains together to Niagara Falls, all of the above caveats, combined with the much higher operating costs compared to just cramming everyone in one 12-car train, make the above operation extremely unlikely. Better to just add an extra departure with the same stopping pattern a couple hours after the current 8:51 departure.
Northern Light
Superstar
If an additional crossing slot of the canal be obtained, that's certainly ideal.
Another option might be to turn back a train at St. Kitts, but connect to Wego/Niagara Region Transit or GO buses there; though obviously if we're talking a full L10/L12 that's a veritable fleet of buses. But if its the 2nd train in a double-pump, and maybe only an L6, there might be a viable operation there.
Just a thought.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Yeah, the bus connections from St. Catharines would be a nightmare with that kind of volume. We'd still be talking about a dozen buses which need to be deadheaded from somewhere. At that point, we may just be better off running hourly(?) non-stop Route 12B bus trips from Burlington station where there's already regular train service anyway. To spice up that option, they could potentially add some new weekend express trains between Union and West Harbour, following the Niagara Express stopping pattern (43 minutes Union-Burlington).
No additional crossing slots of the canal are required if the new trip departs 1 hour after the busy 8:51 trip. The train would cross the double-tracked bridge at 11:34, simultaneously with the first train's return from Niagara falls. Compared to running them in a row to Niagara Falls, it would be simpler, more reliable and have lower impact on the canal.
Spreading the passenger load into two 8-car trains instead of a single 12-car train also gives WeGo more of a fighting chance of transporting those people to the falls. Currently the morning train dumps up to 1700 people in one go, which is 21 times the capacity of a WeGo articulated bus. But WeGo can't afford to have 21 spare buses just to run one shuttle trip per day. If half the riders showed up at the station an hour later, they would need half as many shuttle buses because each bus would have time to do a round trip to the falls between the train arrivals.
Last summer when I went to Niagara Falls, this was the lineup for the WeGo bus after 3 crush-loaded articulated buses had already departed:
Since the new train trip is primarily for capacity purposes, it would only operate from May to September, while the other 3 round trips would operate year-round.
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anb
Active Member
I’ve always wondered if either extending the tracks to be as close as possible to the falls, or a full on Monorail/People mover going down the whole Niagara Pkwy would work best to benefit the crowd control and capacity issues. I’m thinking the former would cost less by comparison so maybe something could work out from that and that’ll probably push all day Niagara trains even further.
denfromoakvillemilton
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11:15 eastbound to Toronto Union delayed by 15 minutes 
Andy_in_Toronto
Active Member
WeGo bus schedule is out - finally for the summer season. We remember that there was no shuttle service to NOTL available. This year it seems coming back. However, the timetable doesn’t mention the frequency. Also, still not allowed to enter NOTL. Simcoe Park would make much more sense. Seems the former Toronto City Councillor and now Major of NOTL is allergic against public transport. Her major concern is to have Queen St. reserved for oversized SUV instead for people and activate the space. The pedestrian area on Queen during the pandemic was a huge success, but she killed it. Sad!
Northern Light
Superstar
The old ROW is partially a bike path, and partially runs through people's back yards and even on-street; reactivating that is unlikely.
As I see it there are two practical options, though both are expensive and will take years to deliver.
1) Build an LRT on-street from the existing Niagara Station likely down Victoria
This is the more likely scenario in my opinion, but not one that is remotely imminent.
***
The other is to have the Niagara service approach from the opposite end, following the old TH&B corridor (still active CP mainline) from Hamilton through to Welland and then down the spur leading into Niagara Falls.
That spur dead ends at the Casino which was literally built on the ROW.
While this makes a lot of sense in many ways, it also means a route that does not serve St. Kitts or wine-country and that doesn't have any major population centres other than Welland en route from Hamilton.
The spur is also in terrible condition and would have to be completely rebuilt.
I've drawn the above image back to almost the Welland Canal, but that track (which has the advantage of going under the canal) extends all the way back to Hamilton.
I've only added a couple hundred metres of track in Niagara otherwise using active corridor only, and it ends pretty close to The Falls itself. The option though certainly exists to reinstate the corridor further along at least to the Casino; getting past f
Fallsviews w/o reconstructing same may be a bit too much to ask.
You can see that here w/the full aerial image, the white line being the track I have drawn in above:
Edit to add: This is the old ROW from NF station:
A few aerials to give you a sense of it:
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