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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

crs1026 said:
I suspect there will be a tipping point for commuting - the less busy roads have made it convenient for commuters to switch back to autos, but as the roads fill up again, that option will become less convenient. I do hear about people spending at least a couple days a week in the office again.

Any rides I have taken on LSE/LSW off-peak have been pretty well patronised. No more getting a quad to one's self, in fact they fill up pretty well. My rides on Kitchener/Barrie/Stouffville seem to be about what they were pre covid.

- Paul
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the difference is Metrolinx is operating a fraction of the service they did pre-covid.

That will hopefully change in the next week or two..
 
Ridership from Kitchener seems to be booming. I know GO doesn’t have the infra in place yet for full two way all day all the way to Waterloo Region, but even a handful of weekend trains would be really helpful on the Kitchener Line.

Heck, you could even extend a few to Stratford to serve the summer tourism market. Trains wouldn’t have to cross the St. Mary’s bridge so you could run the MP40s.
 
ShonTron said:
Traffic coming into Toronto is worse - and the DVP is awful going northbound from about 2PM to about 6PM - backing up all the way to Dundas or Queen sometimes, which wasn't normal pre-COVID. The only thing GO doesn't offer is flexibility, especially on the Richmond Hill or Milton lines, where the GO buses aren't as convenient or as fast, especially caught up in that traffic. The new GO bus terminal is nice in many ways, it's more suited to long-distance coaches. I found the old terminal easier to get to and from, especially on a bike.
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The Bala Sub only sees one freight per day south of Langstaff. So why not make it a priority to run trains to langstaff? They may need to build a GO underpass and a third track or move the station to south of the York Sub which would allow trains to avoid the conflict.
 
SaugeenJunction said:
Ridership from Kitchener seems to be booming. I know GO doesn’t have the infra in place yet for full two way all day all the way to Waterloo Region, but even a handful of weekend trains would be really helpful on the Kitchener Line.

Heck, you could even extend a few to Stratford to serve the summer tourism market. Trains wouldn’t have to cross the St. Mary’s bridge so you could run the MP40s.
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I'm sure people would forgive the lack of the express service on the 25 if the mid day trains that were added back in September were still running. At least we still have the 30 running that also stops in Mississauga, and the route itself is like an all day 25F, however ends at Bramalea instead of the 407 Station. I feel for people that travel on the weekends as the only service running is the local 25, and its not even a 30 min service at least if they were going to make this the only unfortunate gateway into the Waterloo region. There isn't even an express branch like the University of Guelph commuters had on Sunday for a brief period in September.

I get if ridership is still low to them and they don't want to risk adding service only to have it be underutilized, but an over capacitated local bus and lack of overall weekend service to Waterloo desperately needs something. My recommendation if we're starting slow is to reintroduce the 25C branch or at least allow the 30 to run all day hourly on weekends, I mean it is called the KITCHENER Line after all and that's supposedly the "train replacement bus route"...
 
I'm curious..........when it comes to GO expansion why is Brantford never considered? It has a rail line going right to it's downtown and Paris. It has 150,000 people and such a service would also get Brantford to Hamilton commuters and a stop at Dundas would also serve McMaster. It would be money way better spent than on the useless London route.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I'm curious..........when it comes to GO expansion why is Brantford never considered? It has a rail line going right to it's downtown and Paris. It has 150,000 people and such a service would also get Brantford to Hamilton commuters and a stop at Dundas would also serve McMaster. It would be money way better spent than on the useless London route.
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Would it? It's about the same distance from the old Dundas station to McMaster than it is from West Harbour.

Though with the long term plans to terminate some trains in Aldershot, it may well make sense to extend an hourly train to Brantford with a stop in Dundas.
 
dowlingm said:
They meet *an* FRA standard but aren‘t built to the same regulatory basis as UPX trains - they likely need a waiver founded on signal/protection enhancements even to run with FRA Tier 1 DMUs such as UPX or RDCs without temporal separation, never mind CPR or GO. https://www.metro-magazine.com/10023132/denton-county-files-alt-vehicle-tech-waiver.
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Although the Stadler FLIRT isn't built to the same regulatory basis as the Nippon Sharyo DMU, it is still fully certified by the FRA and does not require a waiver.

The Nippon Sharyo DMU complies with the traditional FRA regulations, in which crashworthiness is largely measured by the amount of deformation in the vehicle's structure when force is applied to the couplers.

The Stadler FLIRT complies with the "FRA Alternative Compliance" regulations, which are basically the EU regulations, but with a few minor modifications such as a thicker windshield. They came into effect in 2018, so they did not exist at the time of the 2012 article you linked. Here is how the FRA describes the purpose of Alternative Compliance (from link above):
[Alternative Compliance] ensures existing and future alternative trainset designs can operate in the U.S. railroad environment on a widespread basis, beyond the constraints that have been imposed by FRA regulations. This helps avert perpetuating a patchwork of waivers in the U.S. passenger rail market that would, in turn, perpetuate the current unattractiveness of the U.S. passenger equipment market to manufacturers. [It] allows U.S. trainsets to use technological advances for safety compliance purposes in a way that was previously restricted under the former regulations.
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Stadler was part of the group which helped get "alternative compliance" created in the first place, precisely to avoid the problem you described. In their case it was for CalTrain's Stadler KISS EMUs which have good enough crash safety to share tracks with freight trains (as per EU crash safety regulations, which are quite strict nowadays) but technically don't meet the FRA buffer strength requirement due to their crumple zones.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
I'm curious..........when it comes to GO expansion why is Brantford never considered? It has a rail line going right to it's downtown and Paris. It has 150,000 people and such a service would also get Brantford to Hamilton commuters and a stop at Dundas would also serve McMaster. It would be money way better spent than on the useless London route.
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Traditionally the answer has been that Brantford already has a commuter rail service to Toronto, which is is the one operated by VIA Rail. See the 2018 timetable below, with commuter-oriented trips highlighted in green.
1.JPG

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However, given VIA's recent reluctance to reinstate the commuter services from Kingston (e.g. train 651, shown in green below), it is possible that VIA is now interested in transferring their commuter services to GO.
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In principle it seems outside VIA's national mandate to be providing commuter service within a particular urban area of a particular province, but it's possible that pre-pandemic it didn't matter since those services were profitable anyway. But if VIA is now doubting that they will continue to be profitable, it may be looking to download those services onto the Province, in which case VIA trains 82 and 83 might be replaced by GO trains in the future.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
I'm curious..........when it comes to GO expansion why is Brantford never considered? It has a rail line going right to it's downtown and Paris. It has 150,000 people and such a service would also get Brantford to Hamilton commuters and a stop at Dundas would also serve McMaster. It would be money way better spent than on the useless London route.
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reaperexpress said:
Traditionally the answer has been that Brantford already has a commuter rail service to Toronto, which is is the one operated by VIA Rail.
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Reaper's answer is a good one, and the mention of CN by others is also apt.

That said, I would add:

Brantford has lobbied for GO service; and that resulted in the 13 bus trips it now gets on weekdays.

I'm not sure what the ridership volume is on those buses, but I imagine that would factor in to considering whether a train is appropriate.

The service, currently is no more frequent than hourly, which seems a bit light for train replacement.

That said, we all know trains will lure additional riders.

****

One thing I'm not sure has been addressed (it may have been) was that Brantford Transit was actually abysmal a few years ago, and the quality of that last-mile connection is an issue when developing
a plan to lure more into transit-based commuting.
 
SaugeenJunction said:
Ridership from Kitchener seems to be booming. I know GO doesn’t have the infra in place yet for full two way all day all the way to Waterloo Region, but even a handful of weekend trains would be really helpful on the Kitchener Line.

Heck, you could even extend a few to Stratford to serve the summer tourism market. Trains wouldn’t have to cross the St. Mary’s bridge so you could run the MP40s.
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Same here. It’s really frustrating and I feel bad for the passengers cramped onto buses to Waterloo.

I’ve emailed Metrolinx about weekend service and I keep getting the runaround. I’m not asking for all day 2 way but some morning and evening weekend service. From guelph it’s either a 1.5 train ride or a 3 milk run. Which, while direct, sucks.

I agree with you about Stratford. It’ll be very popular for the tourist crowd. I’ve seen Stratford packed pre pandemic.

I also hope the service become permanent and Metrolinx buys the line, repairs the bridge, repairs the line and adds sliding for passing. There are so many students using the train when I’ve been on it.
 
Garuda said:
Same here. It’s really frustrating and I feel bad for the passengers cramped onto buses to Waterloo.

I’ve emailed Metrolinx about weekend service and I keep getting the runaround. I’m not asking for all day 2 way but some morning and evening weekend service. From guelph it’s either a 1.5 train ride or a 3 milk run. Which, while direct, sucks.

I agree with you about Stratford. It’ll be very popular for the tourist crowd. I’ve seen Stratford packed pre pandemic.

I also hope the service become permanent and Metrolinx buys the line, repairs the bridge, repairs the line and adds sliding for passing. There are so many students using the train when I’ve been on it.
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There's enough track capacity for GO to introduce hourly weekend train service to Mount Pleasant, similar to the midday schedule, as it uses only one track between Halwest and Mount Pleasant, leaving a mostly two-track section for CN, with a short one-track section through Downtown Brampton (which isn't much different for CN to the old track arrangement when it was a single track through downtown). That, plus Route 30, would be a hell of a lot better for Guelph and Kitchener, with only Mississauga-bound riders taking the 25 milk run.
 
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