GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[ssiguy2]

What are the odds that the London GO train route makes it past pilot?

Somewhere between zero & nil which is what I think ML & QP are hoping for so they can say they gave it the old college try but Londoners didn't want it so they can put the matter to rest. It's bad enough that this line was obviously drawn up by a Torontonian who knows nothing about London {and probably cares even less} but to add insult to injury, this London "service" is Toronto focused as it does absolutely NOTHING for London commuters.

Even if you can get someone to take a ridiculous 4 hour train ride to Toronto as opposed to a 2 and a half ride on on more comfortable VIA or even a faster bus trip, how can they do it? The buses in London don't run that early which means in order for you to get to the one train a day you have to either take an expensive cab or drive to the station and pay a crapload for an entire days parking. That basic logistical reality will cause the service to be a complete white elephant.

The positive ONLY thing that can come out of this is that even the threat of GO to London maybe enough to force VIA to extend it's HFR service to London which of course it should be. This non-existent service is no threat to VIA but if GO decides it also wants to try the faster and more direct southern route then it would blow a whole in VIA's pocketbook.. Going to Quebec City before London is politics at work as London is a busier station and the 4th busiest in the entire system and that is a market they cannot afford to relinquish.

 

[Urban Sky]

Going to Quebec City before London is politics at work as London is a busier station and the 4th busiest in the entire system and that is a market they cannot afford to relinquish.

HFR was never supposed to go beyond Montreal and Quebec, but focussed lobbying by political and business leaders in Trois-Rivières and Quebec succeeded in placing these two cities on the map, whereas articles and editorials in the London Free Press relentlessly bashed VIA for having the audacity to propose an intercity passenger rail project in the same province as Wynne's vanity HSR project, which was presented the same year as HFR (2014). Southwestern Ontario lost seven years because they put all their eggs in the same basket when they could (and should) have hedged their bets...

 

[Bordercollie]

Somewhere between zero & nil which is what I think ML & QP are hoping for so they can say they gave it the old college try but Londoners didn't want it so they can put the matter to rest. It's bad enough that this line was obviously drawn up by a Torontonian who knows nothing about London {and probably cares even less} but to add insult to injury, this London "service" is Toronto focused as it does absolutely NOTHING for London commuters.

Even if you can get someone to take a ridiculous 4 hour train ride to Toronto as opposed to a 2 and a half ride on on more comfortable VIA or even a faster bus trip, how can they do it? The buses in London don't run that early which means in order for you to get to the one train a day you have to either take an expensive cab or drive to the station and pay a crapload for an entire days parking. That basic logistical reality will cause the service to be a complete white elephant.

The positive ONLY thing that can come out of this is that even the threat of GO to London maybe enough to force VIA to extend it's HFR service to London which of course it should be. This non-existent service is no threat to VIA but if GO decides it also wants to try the faster and more direct southern route then it would blow a whole in VIA's pocketbook.. Going to Quebec City before London is politics at work as London is a busier station and the 4th busiest in the entire system and that is a market they cannot afford to relinquish.

The service is not meant to take a 4 hour commute to Toronto. That's not why people would take this train.

 

[smallspy]

Ah that's great to hear. I wasn't aware that the historic line speed was 80 mph (129 km/h). If tie replacement is all it takes to get it up to 80 mph, then that does sound worthwhile. If the current track structure is in decent condition, then a 95 mph upgrade could be postponed until it needs more serious work.

What is the scenario you're referencing where a 95 mph standard would not be attainable? Although some of the curves do indeed limit speeds to 80 mph or lower, that shouldn't preclude a higher track speed on the extremely long straight segments between stations.

There are absolutely geometry issues that will come into play - both horizontal and vertical. Structures, too.

I'm not for a second suggesting that 95/100 isn't attainable - but getting there will likely be a whole different scale of expenditure versus simply fixing up the line to where it was before.

Dan

 

[wopchop]

Some people are reading far too much into this extension.
It was not "designed" as a Toronto centric service.
It was clearly designed to be a quick political win, which means low cost. As a consequence of that, they simply extended a train that already runs Kitchener to Toronto.
Do people really believe that some people at Metrolinx sat in a room and said to themselves "how can we serve London commuter traffic?" and came up with this?
Seriously, an announcement like this is just a way for the ruling party to get around campaign spending limits.

Honestly, I like that this is the pilot service. Because if even one person takes this service from London to Kitchener or Toronto, they should begin track upgrades/ construction immediately.

 

[Bordercollie]

Some people are reading far too much into this extension.
It was not "designed" as a Toronto centric service.
It was clearly designed to be a quick political win, which means low cost. As a consequence of that, they simply extended a train that already runs Kitchener to Toronto.
Do people really believe that some people at Metrolinx sat in a room and said to themselves "how can we serve London commuter traffic?" and came up with this?
Seriously, an announcement like this is just a way for the ruling party to get around campaign spending limits.

Honestly, I like that this is the pilot service. Because if even one person takes this service from London to Kitchener or Toronto, they should begin track upgrades/ construction immediately.

I guess they have more votes out west than up north.

 

[wopchop]

I guess they have more votes out west than up north.

It almost doesn't even matter where the work is happening.
It gets in the news cycle. Especially with an election year coming up, the ruling party wants to project a "working for you" "getting things done" culture.
Hell if Del Duca was still Minister, this would be four announcements in London, St Mary's, Stratford AND Kitchener.

The North is a different story for sure.

 

[ssiguy2]

The service is not meant to take a 4 hour commute to Toronto. That's not why people would take this train.

So exactly why are they suppose to take this train? It certainly does squat for commuter because it LEAVES the city in the morning as opposed to the other way around. Can you imagine Toronto having it's GO commuter lines LEAVING the city in the morning? Of course not but apparently ML thinks this is how Londoners commute.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The service is not meant to take a 4 hour commute to Toronto. That's not why people would take this train.

From link.

Thirty six years in the Senate, Biden never lived in Washington.

Why? Biden lost his wife and daughter to a tragic car accident in 1972. He was sworn in to the Senate at his sons' bedsides—they had been critically injured in the crash but recovered.

So Biden made the choice to spend four hours a day in transit so his sons wouldn’t be uprooted — so he could be there for them as they grew up

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281602829443112966

I think that some people would commute 4 hours a day.

 

[mdu]

From link.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281602829443112966

I think that some people would commute 4 hours a day.

Biden's commute would be like one from Barrie or Kitchener; about two hours each way, which plenty of people do. Is anyone seriously spending 8 hours a day to and from Toronto on a habitual basis?

 

[ARG1]

So exactly why are they suppose to take this train? It certainly does squat for commuter because it LEAVES the city in the morning as opposed to the other way around. Can you imagine Toronto having it's GO commuter lines LEAVING the city in the morning? Of course not but apparently ML thinks this is how Londoners commute.

We have told you why to take the train, to get to Kitchener at around 7:30, before many jobs startup around there. If you refuse to listen what people tell you, why are you here?

Also GO commuter rail lines leaving the city in the morning? They do: See early morning train service to Kitchener and Barrie.

 

[TransitBart]

I’ve taken the Lakeshore West train a few times lately. Ridership remains very low off peak. The QEW, however, is definitely busy. How do we get people back on the train?

Have you filled your car up this week?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Have you filled your car up this week?

Unless one has a hybrid or electric vehicle.

 

[Bordercollie]

So exactly why are they suppose to take this train? It certainly does squat for commuter because it LEAVES the city in the morning as opposed to the other way around. Can you imagine Toronto having it's GO commuter lines LEAVING the city in the morning? Of course not but apparently ML thinks this is how Londoners commute.

Ok so how many people "commute" to London? And from where? Woodstock? Ingersoll? Brantford?
Those are all served by VIA.

St Thomas? St Mary's? Those are possible. But the rail line to St Thomas is owned by a tourist train. I don't know what the speeds are on that line or if it's worth runing a commuter line.

 

[Northern Light]

But the rail line to St Thomas is owned by a tourist train.

Nope, CN still owns London to St. Thomas, as the Talbot Sub.

What they do not own is St.Thomas to Port Stanley.

I don't know what the speeds are on that line or if it's worth runing a commuter line.

@smallspy and @crs1026 would know better than I.

But last I recall, it didn't have any passing track along its entire length which I suspect might be a problem; though it might not if any service were strictly peak-period, weekdays.

In whether ridership merits rail; again, I couldn't say.

Though my understanding was that as recently as 2019 a regional bus connection London was being contemplated with 30 minute service, which would suggest that there might be something there.

Though looking at Sean Marshall's site, I don't see any bus connection running between the two, which would surely be a pre-requisite to rail service.

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