GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[tmlittle]

My understanding is that there's been a few years of Metrolinx and regional studies showing there's a fair bit of pure Kitchener-Guelph and Cambridge-Guelph ridership. I think we need to get away from seeing the single seat ride to Union as the end all and be all. Where the would really help would be in taking park n ride ridership from Milton and Aldershot onto the Kitchener line.

A more frequent service with smaller trains would be better than the 12-car train at 7am model at fulfilling a variety of trips rather than just the 9-5 commuter. I think it would also help with the planning aspect - small trains with small platforms put onto an older shortline vs trying to ram bilevels through Hespeler. It'd also be more practical to electrify from the get go, as I suspect the issues with the Halton sub will keep Kitchener diesel for a long time.

 

[robmausser]

My understanding is that that is constrained by lack of dedicated GO lines between Bramalea and Georgetown. I think you’re asking for additional services, and that puts pressure on the track that’s shared with CN

Not asking for additional services. Instead, some peak services destined for Kitchener go to Cambridge instead.

 

[Garuda]

It is, no? FTA:

“ Trains would run out of the future Pinebush Ion station, but the LRT to Cambridge hasn’t yet been funded or approved by the province. Ridership for the Cambridge GO service would also “be heavily influenced” by how frequent and fast Kitchener GO service is.”

So, the problem is that this depends on two unfunded plans. At least we’re now considering the Kitchener line, which I think is a better call.

Opps. that's what I get for scanning the report and not reading too deeply.

Pinebush is a good choice. I imagine the future station would bear a striking similarty to the Helensvale Station in Gold Coast, Queensland.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Has the Highway 407 Freight Bypass been cancelled or indefinitely delayed? I understand making use of existing corridors and making deals for more service, but would it need to be built eventually?

 

[crs1026]

Has the Highway 407 Freight Bypass been cancelled or indefinitely delayed? I understand making use of existing corridors and making deals for more service, but would it need to be built eventually?

It is dead, for this decade anyways I’m sure all the design work done was shrinkwrapped. It will be interesting to see whether anyone banks the land thatmight be needed.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Has the Highway 407 Freight Bypass been cancelled or indefinitely delayed? I understand making use of existing corridors and making deals for more service, but would it need to be built eventually?

The transit agency is exploring two options on the important rail route. Following the recommendations from the Initial Business Case (IBC) the options to deliver two-way all-day service would all divert from the originally explored expensive rail bypass being built, and instead, through partnership with CN, move forward with an approach that involves sharing tracks and minimal infrastructure.

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.

blog.metrolinx.com

 

[drum118]

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.

blog.metrolinx.com

Best options since the first EA was done in early 2000 is to 4 track the Halton sub with a 5th track where possible with a fly under at X point before Georgetown where GO and VIA will be on the north side and have no impact on CN.

I have call for 4 tracks on all corridors starting with the doubling the KW single line to 2 tracks that turn out to be 3 during construction. The cost are out weighted by the ability to to offer All Day Both Direction service to Kitchener than doing piece meal expansion. It even out weight the cost of built the bypass as that what it is, not the missing link.

The bridge support over the Credit River will support 3 tracks currently with only a bridge been added to it and easy to builds the the support on the other side for the 4th track. When they added the 2nd track to the bridge on the north side, they extended the support for the 3rd track then.

The big issue is getting CN to allow electrification for the whole corridor.

The best I can see at this time is a 3-4 EMU train to Kitchener hourly and that pushing it.

From Georgetown to Kitchener needs to be double track and will be an issue in Guelph to do it, other than a short single track section.

Going onto 20 years since I call for the KW line to be 4 tracks as well all corridors.

 

[UrbanJon]

I found a quote from this article about the Cambridge GO study quite interesting:

Proposed GO Transit line would connect Cambridge to Guelph | Globalnews.ca

A staff report will appear before Waterloo Region Council on Tuesday which recommends it endorse a plan to build a GO Transit line between Cambridge and Guelph.

globalnews.ca

The report provides an alternative to what would appear to be a more sensible move in creating an extension between the Milton GO station and Cambridge.

A Milton extension makes a lot more sense, barring issues with CP. A route through Guelph is a lot less convenient, much more circuituous, involves a transfer and while the Cambridge station does link to LRT, it is in the middle of nowhere.

This plan has no legs. As soon as the CP issues are worked out, and they will be since CP barely runs any trains on the Cambridge line, the Guelph-Cambridge route will be have no leg to stand on. Unfortunately, we wasted money and effort on this study.

 

[Northern Light]

I found a quote from this article about the Cambridge GO study quite interesting:

Proposed GO Transit line would connect Cambridge to Guelph | Globalnews.ca

A staff report will appear before Waterloo Region Council on Tuesday which recommends it endorse a plan to build a GO Transit line between Cambridge and Guelph.

globalnews.ca

A Milton extension makes a lot more sense, barring issues with CP. A route through Guelph is a lot less convenient, much more circuituous, involves a transfer and while the Cambridge station does link to LRT, it is in the middle of nowhere.

This plan has no legs. As soon as the CP issues are worked out, and they will be since CP barely runs any trains on the Cambridge line, the Guelph-Cambridge route will be have no leg to stand on. Unfortunately, we wasted money and effort on this study.

CP hardly runs any trains on its mainline?

Don't think that's quite right.

Edit to add:

According to this report:

https://calendar.richmondhill.ca/default/Detail/2017-10-10-Council-Meeting-730-pm/Item%204.0%20-%20SRPRS.17.174%20-%20Potential%20Increase%20of%20Freight%20Rail%20Traffic%20in%20York%20Region.pdf

As at 2017 CP was running 40 trains daily through the GTA on its mainline.

 

[ARG1]

CP hardly runs any trains on its mainline?

Don't think that's quite right.

If that was true I don't think the pressure to build Davenport would be that high. At the moment the crossing is the main reason why Barrie Line can't run trains more frequently than hourly.

 

[UrbanJon]

CP is not busy heading west out of Toronto. They only have 8 trains per day going through Guelph Junction, about half divert to Hamilton. They are only busier going north from Toronto and for a GO service to Union, that is very avoidable. It also explains the Davenport Diamond as @ARG1 mentions, since that section is the outlet for traffic to Western Canada. It has no bearing on a Milton Line extension.

Beyond that though, if they didn't have issues with CP, the Guelph routing wouldn't be considered. There are numerous problems with it as I mentioned above. It just isn't a good route.

 

[robmausser]

CP is not busy heading west out of Toronto. They only have 8 trains per day going through Guelph Junction, about half divert to Hamilton. They are only busier going north from Toronto and for a GO service to Union, that is very avoidable. It also explains the Davenport Diamond as @ARG1 mentions, since that section is the outlet for traffic to Western Canada. It has no bearing on a Milton Line extension.

Beyond that though, if they didn't have issues with CP, the Guelph routing wouldn't be considered. There are numerous problems with it as I mentioned above. It just isn't a good route.

CP basically will never let any more trains on that line, its a non starter, barring some kind of government intervention. Guelph isnt as good, but its also not as good as an 800km/h hyperloop. And we aint getting a hyperloop, just like we aint getting more trains on the CP line.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

GO Transit needs to take over the following Greyhound Canada routes...

From link.

AFFECTED ROUTES AND OPERATIONS IN ONTARIO AND QUEBEC
All Ontario and Quebec routes (excluding Canada – US cross-border services) that were temporarily suspended in May 2020 will permanently end as of midnight, May 13th as follows:

• Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal
• Toronto-London-Windsor
• Sudbury-Ottawa/Toronto
• Toronto-Kitchener/Guelph/Cambridge
• Toronto-Niagara Falls
• Ottawa-Kingston

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

GO Transit needs to take over the following Greyhound Canada routes...

From link.

AFFECTED ROUTES AND OPERATIONS IN ONTARIO AND QUEBEC
All Ontario and Quebec routes (excluding Canada – US cross-border services) that were temporarily suspended in May 2020 will permanently end as of midnight, May 13th as follows:

• Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal
• Toronto-London-Windsor
• Sudbury-Ottawa/Toronto
• Toronto-Kitchener/Guelph/Cambridge
• Toronto-Niagara Falls
• Ottawa-Kingston

Via rail already operates over all of those routes. Also I don't really see go transit wanting to go outside of the province of Ontario.

 

[Urban Sky]

Via rail already operates over all of those routes. Also I don't really see go transit wanting to go outside of the province of Ontario.

As long as they are a provincially regulated railroad, they can’t (even if they wanted) and in the case of Sudbury-Ottawa, there is quite a considerable gap without any more tracks left…