GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[MisterF]

I don't think it would ever be a case of some lines going to Union while other lines go to Summerhill. It's not like some cities where certain tracks only go to certain stations. Toronto's rail system has enough flexibility that we can send certain trains to either station. Even lines that don't connect to the CP line, like Stouffville and Lakeshore East, could be made to connect fairly easily. So for a given line you might have, say, 15 minute service to Union and hourly service to Summerhill.

 

[smallspy]

Most definitely. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only ever likely to be BRT, yes? I was thinking to a day when there might be a need and desire for heavy rail, in my dreams up to and including HSR, across the top of the city. Kind of like TGV to Charles De Gaulle airport. Yeah, it's a long way off, but so was the Bloor subway when they built the Viaduct.

I don't know if the Transitway is rail-convertible in terms of grades, curves, etc.

- Paul

Anything's convertible if you want it to be - despite Ottawa's Transitway being "designed for LRT" from the outset, there are still a couple of locations where they've had to re-grade the line. The reality is that the most important part is having the ROW, and with the 407 transitway they're going ahead with that.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Does anyone know if there are plans to for GO to use the electronic next bus arrival displays at Richmond Hill Centre? Currently, there are electronic signs at all 3 platforms, as well as a TV that does nothing.

 

[mind_the_gap]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but can anyone confirm that GO has indeed acquired single-deck cab car #104 from AMT for their 50th anniversary celebrations. These rumours were floating around on another forum last week but I haven't found any confirmation of this anywhere. And are they actually purchasing the car, or just leasing it for a certain period?

If true, it would be great to see this car running in service regularly in front of a normal GO bilevel consist! (as they did once upon a time...)

Photographer unknown. URL: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/7949143144_e7278b66c7_b.jpg

Was this cab car one of the nine self-propelled units? And if so, can it still operate under its own power (ie. is the engine still intact)?

I was absolutely astonished to find out that GO/Metrolinx have operated DMUs in the past, before UP Express started. The nine single-deck cars operated as DMUs off-peak on the Lakeshore line. But their weak engines (~330hp/car) couldn't handle the passenger volumes, so they got hooked up to locomotives pretty soon after. You learn something every day...

 

[crs1026]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but can anyone confirm that GO has indeed acquired single-deck cab car #104 from AMT for their 50th anniversary celebrations. These rumours were floating around on another forum last week but I haven't found any confirmation of this anywhere. And are they actually purchasing the car, or just leasing it for a certain period?

I don't know about ownership of this unit, but I do know that ML is planning on observing the anniversary with high profile.

If true, it would be great to see this car running in service regularly in front of a normal GO bilevel consist! (as they did once upon a time...)

Don't hold your breath. Apart from it being at end of life, it would be a lot of work to bring the cab up to GO standard, adding all the new radio and communication equipment, control equipment, passenger alarm strips, etc. which have been added to the GO spec since these cars were sold off. Service may be limited to 'special' or 'display' service.

Besides, unless added it to a 10-car train, it would take away capacity if substituted for a bilevel coach.

Was this cab car one of the nine self-propelled units? And if so, can it still operate under its own power (ie. is the engine still intact)?

We still don't know for sure if any car has been bought, but 104 is the former C754 which was built as a non-powered cab car.

I was absolutely astonished to find out that GO/Metrolinx have operated DMUs in the past, before UP Express started. The nine single-deck cars operated as DMUs off-peak on the Lakeshore line. But their weak engines (~330hp/car) couldn't handle the passenger volumes, so they got hooked up to locomotives pretty soon after. You learn something every day...

The Rolls Royce engines couldn't handle the physical environment. Also, no two cars were wired in the same way. Troubleshooting was a nightmare because while there were circuit drawings, there was no documentation showing how the wiring was routed through each car.

That photo of a 3-car set? The service plan called for two cars, but three had to be dispatched just in case. Even that proved unreliable, and rather than make things worse, GO depowered the cars altogether.

- Paul

 

[APTA-2048]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but can anyone confirm that GO has indeed acquired single-deck cab car #104 from AMT for their 50th anniversary celebrations. These rumours were floating around on another forum last week but I haven't found any confirmation of this anywhere. And are they actually purchasing the car, or just leasing it for a certain period?

If true, it would be great to see this car running in service regularly in front of a normal GO bilevel consist! (as they did once upon a time...)

Photographer unknown. URL: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/7949143144_e7278b66c7_b.jpg

Was this cab car one of the nine self-propelled units? And if so, can it still operate under its own power (ie. is the engine still intact)?

I was absolutely astonished to find out that GO/Metrolinx have operated DMUs in the past, before UP Express started. The nine single-deck cars operated as DMUs off-peak on the Lakeshore line. But their weak engines (~330hp/car) couldn't handle the passenger volumes, so they got hooked up to locomotives pretty soon after. You learn something every day...

It's confirmed further down the thread. I'm willing to bet the same person will probably elaborate on it here.

 

[steveintoronto]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but can anyone confirm that GO has indeed acquired single-deck cab car #104 from AMT for their 50th anniversary celebrations. These rumours were floating around on another forum last week but I haven't found any confirmation of this anywhere. And are they actually purchasing the car, or just leasing it for a certain period?

If true, it would be great to see this car running in service regularly in front of a normal GO bilevel consist! (as they did once upon a time...)
[...]
Was this cab car one of the nine self-propelled units? And if so, can it still operate under its own power (ie. is the engine still intact)?

All of the self-powered units were de-engined, and towed as trailers when the GPs arrived, some as control cabs. 104 might be a control cab conversion. I was looking into these a few weeks back as ONR has some, perhaps quite a few, still left sitting idle, and I wondered on them being used as a trailer to extend three car Sharyo consists, as no more Sharyos will be ordered. These were very light units. The cab conversions were wired for multiplex control.

I have *some* news for you:

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/GO_Transit_Single-Level_cars

Even if just on loan from AMT, examples still exist in the ONR fleet, albeit in what shape is a good question, but probably not great.

It's an interesting question though....and to think it's been fifty years...yikes.

 

[mind_the_gap]

Thank you very much for your replies guys! This is indeed great news! Even if it would take too much to operate the car in regular service, this would make a great permanent feature at Halton County. Their guys can do miracles. And thank you for the extra info on the self-propelled units - those particular cars I found really interesting.

I can't wait to see this car back in GO colours!

 

[steveintoronto]

Thank you very much for your replies guys!

Just reading back on a couple of lists, and whether other systems still have them extant or not, indications are (if current) that ONR still has some in service, and still has some acquired that were never put into service. If stored properly, they might be in reasonable shape. I'm intrigued still as to the viability of the cab units (The C classification indicates this is one). The coach and/or cab versions could be converted either as trailers sandwiched in UPX trains (which are due for engine swaps at some point, and therefore later higher power versions installed) and/or the possibility of using the coaches as a short term basis (ten years or so) diesel consist (min three coach + F59, one cab, one coach converted to disability access) on the Bramalea-Union run before whichever century it is that RER is actually born. As Paul states though, they will need upgrades, but in the big scheme of costs, and time, they might be very opportune. For UPX, the steps would have to be changed to high platform, and doors cut in mid-coach. Since these are based on the same era TTC subway cars, some door sets might still be available. Whether that would meet TC current regs is a good question.

If that H-S 104 has arrived, and is showcased, it just might spark some creative thinking on the ONR stock and the potential to justify an econo cost service on the Weston Sub. Imagine that! GO Transit honouring its roots by doing something on an economical basis.

 

[mind_the_gap]

If that H-S 104 has arrived, and is showcased, it just might spark some creative thinking on the ONR stock and the potential to justify an econo cost service on the Weston Sub. Imagine that! GO Transit honouring its roots by doing something on an economical basis.

Sh** dude! You're actually using your brain!

If those ONR cars can be restored/upgraded to current standards, that makes so much sense.

 

[steveintoronto]

If those ONR cars can be restored/upgraded to current standards, that makes so much sense.

Those fifty years aren't that much less though than VIA's heritage fleet, some of which is in very poor shape, some in very good shape, in structural terms.

If 104 gets a good looking at, (and it's highly probable it was towed here by rail) and the trucks and chassis are in good shape, as well as the body (it is aluminum, but can still corrode, especially at dissimilar metal junctions) then a number of possibilities can be further explored. What's interesting in ONRs case is the long-distance use of those ex-commuter coaches.

This should be very interesting...

 

[TransitBart]

On another note, it seems that we as a province/region/city need focus on transit as a way to solve this problem.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...bottlenecks-now-as-bad-as-la/article33574492/

With news like this, I would think that it would be easy to finish off the career of any politician who was planning to eliminate or postpone desperately needed measures to mitigate this.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

All of the self-powered units were de-engined, and towed as trailers when the GPs arrived, some as control cabs. 104 might be a control cab conversion. I was looking into these a few weeks back as ONR has some, perhaps quite a few, still left sitting idle, and I wondered on them being used as a trailer to extend three car Sharyo consists, as no more Sharyos will be ordered. These were very light units. The cab conversions were wired for multiplex control.

I have *some* news for you:
View attachment 95996
https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/GO_Transit_Single-Level_cars

Even if just on loan from AMT, examples still exist in the ONR fleet, albeit in what shape is a good question, but probably not great.

It's an interesting question though....and to think it's been fifty years...yikes.

This is VERY VERY exciting news. I'd love it if GO fixed it up and run it for the 50th anniversary celebrations, then used it on weekend trains during the summer or something like that, kind of how the TTC runs a PCC on the 509 Harbourfront Line on summer Sundays. Lots of weekend trains are only 10 cars anyways, and it could be rotated around various lines.

I am glad GO is bringing it back. At 50 years, GO is probably one of the most recognizable government brands (at least for GTHA residents). Building a strong culture around a service like GO is important, and doing this will help with that. Sure, the average person probably won't be aware of an old GO car getting restored, but for railfans, parents with young kids, and people who stumble upon it in person, it will be a great "guess what I saw the other day" conversation piece, and a way to remind us how important GO has been, is, and will be for moving the GTHA.

 

[crs1026]

With news like this, I would think that it would be easy to finish off the career of any politician who was planning to eliminate or postpone desperately needed measures to mitigate this.

Indeed, a politician who says directly "I don't believe transit is the solution and if elected I will not invest in it" doesn't stand a chance.

However, I'm cynical enough to fear that a politician might say " I think the last guy's transit plan is not effective and is spending a lot of money for nothing. I have a better idea and if elected I will cancel the last guy's project and pursue mine instead, because it's better and cheaper. I even have a catchy name for it. Don't harass me with detailed questions about how it will work, because I'm not an engineer. But I am right." - and then we go into years of new debate, and in the meanwhile things don't get built.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

This is VERY VERY exciting news. I'd love it if GO fixed it up and run it for the 50th anniversary celebrations, then used it on weekend trains during the summer or something like that, kind of how the TTC runs a PCC on the 509 Harbourfront Line on summer Sundays. Lots of weekend trains are only 10 cars anyways, and it could be rotated around various lines.

I am glad GO is bringing it back. At 50 years, GO is probably one of the most recognizable government brands (at least for GTHA residents). Building a strong culture around a service like GO is important, and doing this will help with that. Sure, the average person probably won't be aware of an old GO car getting restored, but for railfans, parents with young kids, and people who stumble upon it in person, it will be a great "guess what I saw the other day" conversation piece, and a way to remind us how important GO has been, is, and will be for moving the GTHA.

I was reluctant to state it as I can't remember the reference, or when this happened, but at some point fairly recently IIRC, ONR acquired five units from a US operator (MARC?). They wouldn't be acquiring them unless there was value in doing so.

I'll keep digging to see what I can find, but some others on this board are much more familiar with their history, availability and state of repair. If ONR can run them (ostensibly with some tweaking) so can GO, even if it's a 'show train' (perhaps combined with Canada's 150 th birthday).

I shouldn't say this but, at least this is good in the sense that it provides more security to almost every Metrolinx project.

You speak in pragmatic terms. For many, that doesn't count.

I give you two examples: Rob Ford, Donald Trump. Wynne is highly unpopular. Voters have become more reactionary and unthinking than ever, and those who they vote for are often torn from the same cloth.