GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

What I envision is this:

AM Peak:

• 30 min service from Niagara Falls to Union (Local: Niagara Falls-Burlington, Express: Burlington-Union)
• 30 min service from Hamilton Centre to Union (Local: Hamilton Centre-Oakville, Express: Oakville-Union)
• 10 min service from Aldershot to Union (Local: Aldershot-Clarkson, Express: Clarkson-Union)
• 10 min service from Oakville to Union (Local: Oakville-Union)

I'm having a little difficulty fitting that to the current track plan. On LSW GO has two tracks for stopping service - one in each direction - and one for peak direction express service. As stopping service headways are decreased, the option to dovetail express with stopping on the same track is lost.

Try it another way. Four peak runs originating from Niagara, two from Lewis Road, and four from Hamilton Center. All express after Burlington, perhaps selectively stopping as far east as Oakville. That's as much express service as is needed for the time being. Plus local service on whatever headway is feasible. Place the express service on Track 3 and run all local services on Tracks 1-2 west of Canpa, thereby avoiding crossover problems at whatever point the local service terminates.Eastbound local trains crossover from track 2 to 4 at Canpa, dovetailed as headways permit between expresses. Otherwise, a flyover will be needed eventually.

A fourth track is needed throughout this territory, if trains will run at the level you are suggesting (and I'm not arguing with your model). I'm really surprised it wasn't proposed in the RER BCA.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

I'm having a little difficulty fitting that to the current track plan. On LSW GO has two tracks for stopping service - one in each direction - and one for peak direction express service. As stopping service headways are decreased, the option to dovetail express with stopping on the same track is lost.

Try it another way. Four peak runs originating from Niagara, two from Lewis Road, and four from Hamilton Center. All express after Burlington, perhaps selectively stopping as far east as Oakville. That's as much express service as is needed for the time being. Plus local service on whatever headway is feasible. Place the express service on Track 3 and run all local services on Tracks 1-2 west of Canpa, thereby avoiding crossover problems at whatever point the local service terminates.Eastbound local trains crossover from track 2 to 4 at Canpa, dovetailed as headways permit between expresses. Otherwise, a flyover will be needed eventually.

A fourth track is needed throughout this territory, if trains will run at the level you are suggesting (and I'm not arguing with your model). I'm really surprised it wasn't proposed in the RER BCA.

- Paul

What about using the track that VIA does? Technically, aren't you just repeating the VIA along there?

 

[crs1026]

^ With a little more thought -

Ten minute peak headways inbound from Hamilton, consisting of dovetailed 30-minute service from each of Hamilton Center, Lewis Road, and Niagara. Alternating trains stop at Burlington + Bronte or Aldershot+ Appleby + Oakville. That lets express trains follow each other without catching up, gives 20 minute "express" service at all these locations. Run local service at whatever headway makes sense - 10, 15, or 20 minutes, perhaps some turnbacks at Oakville.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

What about using the track that VIA does? Technically, aren't you just repeating the VIA along there?

VIA doesn't have its own track. Going forward, VIA is kinda SOL. In all of these scenarios, their ability to run counter to the peak express flow is going to suffer.

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks this may be by design - perhaps ML is thinking, if VIA wants to improve whatever service they are running (they have arguably abdicated Niagara, and London to some degree), let them pay for the fourth track. Otherwise they get 2 or 3 slots in the peak direction, and they can plod along between the local GO trains otherwise.

- Paul

 

[gweed123]

I'm having a little difficulty fitting that to the current track plan. On LSW GO has two tracks for stopping service - one in each direction - and one for peak direction express service. As stopping service headways are decreased, the option to dovetail express with stopping on the same track is lost.

Try it another way. Four peak runs originating from Niagara, two from Lewis Road, and four from Hamilton Center. All express after Burlington, perhaps selectively stopping as far east as Oakville. That's as much express service as is needed for the time being. Plus local service on whatever headway is feasible. Place the express service on Track 3 and run all local services on Tracks 1-2 west of Canpa, thereby avoiding crossover problems at whatever point the local service terminates.Eastbound local trains crossover from track 2 to 4 at Canpa, dovetailed as headways permit between expresses. Otherwise, a flyover will be needed eventually.

A fourth track is needed throughout this territory, if trains will run at the level you are suggesting (and I'm not arguing with your model). I'm really surprised it wasn't proposed in the RER BCA.

- Paul

Thank you for the layout perspective. Admittedly I'm not nearly as well versed in it as you are. Yes, I do acknowledge that only having 3 tracks for the majority of the route does limit how the express and local services can run in parallel.

Out of curiosity, would cutting the local service at Burlington and re-activating the northernmost 4th track do anything? That would keep the local service entirely off of CN's main line, and may make things easier. Aldershot would still be getting 30 min service from the Confederation and Hamilton Centre branches.

VIA doesn't have its own track. Going forward, VIA is kinda SOL. In all of these scenarios, their ability to run counter to the peak express flow is going to suffer.

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks this may be by design - perhaps ML is thinking, if VIA wants to improve whatever service they are running (they have arguably abdicated Niagara, and London to some degree), let them pay for the fourth track. Otherwise they get 2 or 3 slots in the peak direction, and they can plod along between the local GO trains otherwise.

- Paul

IMO Via shouldn't be on the LSW corridor anyways. Route all Via service along the Kitchener Line and go to London that way. This will make even more sense when the Pearson Hub opens up.

If Via does need some service to the areas west of Hamilton that are only accessible by the LSW corridor, perhaps they can negotiate with CN to run on their mainline from Georgetown to Burlington.

 

[crs1026]

Out of curiosity, would cutting the local service at Burlington and re-activating the northernmost 4th track do anything? That would keep the local service entirely off of CN's main line, and may make things easier. Aldershot would still be getting 30 min service from the Confederation and Hamilton Centre branches.

I'd say it is possible. Service at Aldershot needs to remain good enough that commuters aren't incented to drive to some other station further east to park. But at peak, if enough trains from Hamilton and beyond stop there, that need is met.

There is still the problem that wherever the local service terminates, it has to cross over the express tracks when it turns back, and that reduces the available headways for the express runs. As more trains are added, that becomes a bigger issue. A flyover will be needed eventually.

- Paul

 

[PinkLucy]

I use Aldershot. Incentive to park elsewhere currently exists because parking is over capacity at the station and with all of the new housing in Waterdown, that's only going to get worse.

 

[micheal_can]

Thank you for the layout perspective. Admittedly I'm not nearly as well versed in it as you are. Yes, I do acknowledge that only having 3 tracks for the majority of the route does limit how the express and local services can run in parallel.

Out of curiosity, would cutting the local service at Burlington and re-activating the northernmost 4th track do anything? That would keep the local service entirely off of CN's main line, and may make things easier. Aldershot would still be getting 30 min service from the Confederation and Hamilton Centre branches.



IMO Via shouldn't be on the LSW corridor anyways. Route all Via service along the Kitchener Line and go to London that way. This will make even more sense when the Pearson Hub opens up.

If Via does need some service to the areas west of Hamilton that are only accessible by the LSW corridor, perhaps they can negotiate with CN to run on their mainline from Georgetown to Burlington.

Via already goes along the Kitchener corridor. LSW corridor also makes sense.

 

[TOareaFan]

Normal/regular 30 minute service on LSW this weekend.

 

[ssiguy2]

Thank you for the layout perspective. Admittedly I'm not nearly as well versed in it as you are. Yes, I do acknowledge that only having 3 tracks for the majority of the route does limit how the express and local services can run in parallel.

Out of curiosity, would cutting the local service at Burlington and re-activating the northernmost 4th track do anything? That would keep the local service entirely off of CN's main line, and may make things easier. Aldershot would still be getting 30 min service from the Confederation and Hamilton Centre branches.



IMO Via shouldn't be on the LSW corridor anyways. Route all Via service along the Kitchener Line and go to London that way. This will make even more sense when the Pearson Hub opens up.

If Via does need some service to the areas west of Hamilton that are only accessible by the LSW corridor, perhaps they can negotiate with CN to run on their mainline from Georgetown to Burlington.

This may be convenient for Torontonians but not Londoners or others from the SW. The route via Aldershot is more direct, 20km shorter, and faster. That idea may work if there is HSR which seems to be all but dead for the travelers from SWO, it even worse and slower service than they have now.

 

[MisterF]

This may be convenient for Torontonians but not Londoners or others from the SW. The route via Aldershot is more direct, 20km shorter, and faster. That idea may work if there is HSR which seems to be all but dead for the travelers from SWO, it even worse and slower service than they have now.

Agreed. That line also serves places that get GO doesn't, like Brantford, Woodstock and Ingersoll. Via gets a not insignificant amount of its ridership from towns like these, and the service is very important to them. There seems to be the attitude from some that there should be only one intercity rail corridor in such a densely populated area and that the intercity trains are somehow infringing on the regional trains' turf. These ideas are bizarre are completely backwards. GO and Via shouldn't be competitors; their operations should be coordinated and complementary. That's how things are done in countries that know how to run trains.

 

[Neutrino]

Just like GO and TTC should be complimentary.

 

[steveintoronto]

Just like GO and TTC should be complimentary.

Complementary, yes, 'complimentary'....not so much, albeit transit is free in some cities.

It must be remembered that the 'North Mainline' is now mostly owned by Metrolinx to K/W, and looking at buying the stretch from K/W to London, albeit CN seem to have a new interest in using it for freight.

The South Mainline is not only fully owned by CN, but they have no more slots they're willing to lease to VIA, let alone Metrolinx.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pu...-rail-in-ontario-final-report/chapter-1.shtml

 

[crs1026]

GO and Via shouldn't be competitors; their operations should be coordinated and complementary. That's how things are done in countries that know how to run trains.

Totally agree in principle, and I have not heard that there are any serious tensions between the two agencies on a working level. They may scrap with each other occasionally, but they basically work things out.

However, at some point the cooperation between them depends on the framework between their principals - ie Ottawa and Queens Park. Ottawa is doing nothing to help Ontario improve its regional rail service, nor is it facilitating relationships with the freight railways. Nor is Ottawa facilitating any intensive increase in VIA service west of Toronto. Nor is Ottawa showing flexibility in regulatory matters.

Ontario is spending billions and Ottawa is barely ponying up. Nor is Ottawa helping Ontario spend its money most effectively.

I'm not a Doug Ford fan, but he's exactly the kind of politician to take a much more hardnosed approach to cooperation with VIA. If Ottawa can't come to the party, VIA may be the meat in the sandwich. And much as I like VIA, I would have to applaud.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Totally agree in principle, and I have not heard that there are any serious tensions between the two agencies on a working level. They may scrap with each other occasionally, but they basically work things out.

However, at some point the cooperation between them depends on the framework between their principals - ie Ottawa and Queens Park. Ottawa is doing nothing to help Ontario improve its regional rail service, nor is it facilitating relationships with the freight railways. Nor is Ottawa facilitating any intensive increase in VIA service west of Toronto. Nor is Ottawa showing flexibility in regulatory matters.

Ontario is spending billions and Ottawa is barely ponying up. Nor is Ottawa helping Ontario spend its money most effectively.

I'm not a Doug Ford fan, but he's exactly the kind of politician to take a much more hardnosed approach to cooperation with VIA. If Ottawa can't come to the party, VIA may be the meat in the sandwich. And much as I like VIA, I would have to applaud.

- Paul

Got to take some issue with this. Ottawa is dragging feet on regulatory issues, doubtless. I'm one of the most vociferous on the need to stop blindly following FRA regs, and even there, TC is behind on waivers, but when it comes to funding, Ottawa is doing a lot for transit, even if some of it is sleight of hand.

Ontario to receive $11.8 billion in federal funding for transit
Ontario pledges to match federal transit funding for Toronto
Public Transit Infrastructure Fund - Infrastructure Canada
etc, etc...

I don't see how Ford can get a pass, but not Ottawa on this. What funding for transit has Ford actually put to paper? "Subways, subways, subways" doesn't count.

If anything, the Feds (and there is talk of this by some in the Cabinet) should be *directly* funding cities, constitutional contention besides.

Once QP admits it intends to privatize Metrolinx projects beyond the DBFOM stage (even steeper P3 models, which I favour, btw, as the only way to get progress happening, for both VIA and Metrolinx) then the claim of lack of direct investment Fed v QP becomes even more specious.

The fact is that *Canada* altogether is way below almost any other developed western (or western like) nation in public works rail infrastructure, save for possibly Australia where even Cdn pension investments dwarf those done domestically. The Ozzies, however, are much more adept at honing the terms and the legislative enablement to make them work.