GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[reaperexpress]

As far as I can tell, this is the current status of double tracking on the Barrie Line:
Green = Complete
Amber = Under Construction
Red = In Planning

From this vantage, it looks like extending the double track south to Downsview Park (inclusive) would shorten the single-track segment to about 10 minutes, which would allow half-hourly bidirectional service (i.e. hourly counter-peak service in the PM but not the AM), though given the lack of sidings north of King City, all but the first counter-peak trains would need to turn back at Maple. Still, it would definitely allow at least one more counter-peak trip from Aurora, shortening the 6-hour gap to 5 or maybe 4 hours.
_

Within the existing track configuration, I was surprised to see that the weekend "18:01" (18:11) SB trip from Aurora still heads northbound from downtown as a deadhead rather an in-service run. With the 17:00 NB to Barrie in the normal hourly slot and the deadhead behind it, the 18h SB trip from Aurora needs to be pushed forward 10 minutes to :11 rather than the normal :01 to provide enough turnaround time in Aurora.
(Meets highlighted in bold)

With two reasonable-length sidings now active, it would be possible to run the northbound trip to Aurora in service as per the normal hourly cycle, meeting the SB trip in the York-Rutherford siding, and have the northbound trip to Barrie run ahead of it, meeting the SB trip in the Maple-King siding. This would add an additional departure at minimal cost (given the trip already exists, albeit out of service), and would allow the southbound 18h trip to depart at the normal time of 18:01 rather than 18:11.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

As far as I can tell, this is the current status of double tracking on the Barrie Line:
Green = Complete
Amber = Under Construction
Red = In Planning
View attachment 131120

From this vantage, it looks like extending the double track south to Downsview Park (inclusive) would shorten the single-track segment to about 10 minutes, which would allow half-hourly bidirectional service (i.e. hourly counter-peak service in the PM but not the AM), though given the lack of sidings north of King City, all but the first counter-peak trains would need to turn back at Maple. Still, it would definitely allow at least one more counter-peak trip from Aurora, shortening the 6-hour gap to 5 or maybe 4 hours.
_

Within the existing track configuration, I was surprised to see that the weekend "18:01" (18:11) SB trip from Aurora still heads northbound from downtown as a deadhead rather an in-service run. With the 17:00 NB to Barrie in the normal hourly slot and the deadhead behind it, the 18h SB trip from Aurora needs to be pushed forward 10 minutes to :11 rather than the normal :01 to provide enough turnaround time in Aurora.
(Meets highlighted in bold)
View attachment 131122

With two reasonable-length sidings now active, it would be possible to run the northbound trip to Aurora in service as per the normal hourly cycle, meeting the SB trip in the York-Rutherford siding, and have the northbound trip to Barrie run ahead of it, meeting the SB trip in the Maple-King siding. This would add an additional departure at minimal cost (given the trip already exists, albeit out of service), and would allow the southbound 18h trip to depart at the normal time of 18:01 rather than 18:11.
View attachment 131123

I think they will have to double the whole thing just to get hourly service both ways. And they will have to do something about Newmarket, as the plan is to go to Barrie hourly both ways. And great map, very informative.

 

[Allandale25]

As far as I can tell, this is the current status of double tracking on the Barrie Line:
Green = Complete
Amber = Under Construction
Red = In Planning

Helpful map, thanks!

 

[robmausser]

As far as I can tell, this is the current status of double tracking on the Barrie Line:
Green = Complete
Amber = Under Construction
Red = In Planning
View attachment 131120

From this vantage, it looks like extending the double track south to Downsview Park (inclusive) would shorten the single-track segment to about 10 minutes, which would allow half-hourly bidirectional service (i.e. hourly counter-peak service in the PM but not the AM), though given the lack of sidings north of King City, all but the first counter-peak trains would need to turn back at Maple. Still, it would definitely allow at least one more counter-peak trip from Aurora, shortening the 6-hour gap to 5 or maybe 4 hours.
_

Within the existing track configuration, I was surprised to see that the weekend "18:01" (18:11) SB trip from Aurora still heads northbound from downtown as a deadhead rather an in-service run. With the 17:00 NB to Barrie in the normal hourly slot and the deadhead behind it, the 18h SB trip from Aurora needs to be pushed forward 10 minutes to :11 rather than the normal :01 to provide enough turnaround time in Aurora.
(Meets highlighted in bold)
View attachment 131122

With two reasonable-length sidings now active, it would be possible to run the northbound trip to Aurora in service as per the normal hourly cycle, meeting the SB trip in the York-Rutherford siding, and have the northbound trip to Barrie run ahead of it, meeting the SB trip in the Maple-King siding. This would add an additional departure at minimal cost (given the trip already exists, albeit out of service), and would allow the southbound 18h trip to depart at the normal time of 18:01 rather than 18:11.
View attachment 131123

Thank you for the map.

However, I was under the impression that there was some sections of the Barrie Line already double tracked north of Maple?

I was hoping to see that in a map as well.

I was certain one was posted before.

 

[reaperexpress]

Thank you for the map.

However, I was under the impression that there was some sections of the Barrie Line already double tracked north of Maple?

I was hoping to see that in a map as well.

I was certain one was posted before.

Not sure what you mean. There is one completed double-track segment between Maple and King City, shown in green on that map, then the next thing north of there is the siding at Bradford if I recall correctly.

 

[crs1026]

I believe the Davenport section is now "under procurement" which is a bit further along than "in planning". The RFQ was issued in August of this year.

What's not clear to me is the scope of that procurement package. It appears to only cover the stretch from Dundas St to St Clair? I'm wondering about the stretch from there up to Steeles?

This is where a Gantt chart is needed. In theory, double track could be installed from Strachan to Dundas St and that would give enough capacity for 30-minute service, at least up to around Maple. However, the Davenport overpass would be on the critical path to 30-minute service, because that level of service would be hard to run while construction is ongoing, and because CP is unlikely to tolerate cross traffic across the diamond every 15 minutes.

However^2, ML has promised the Davenport residents that service will be restricted to hourly until the line is electrified.

Does ML intend to string wires selectively while bits of the line are doubletracked? More likely, the second track will have to be put in place from end to end, then wires strung. The end result - no 30 minute service until all tracks are laid and wires strung, end to end. 2024 if we are lucky.

I'm analysing from the bleachers, so maybe ML has a different plan altogether. But this is an example of how the Minister's photo op claims about the project "moving forward" are just puffery. Tell us what the longest lead time item on the Gantt chart is, and show us that the work is being tackled with an eye to the critical path. The province is managing this like a fireworks show - pretty flash over here, awesome spectacle over there, but after a short time it's all just smoke and darkness.

Anyways, all day hourly service is so much better than what we had, so in the spirit of the season, we can be joyful. For now.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

As far as I can tell, this is the current status of double tracking on the Barrie Line:
Green = Complete
Amber = Under Construction
Red = In Planning
View attachment 131120

From this vantage, it looks like extending the double track south to Downsview Park (inclusive) would shorten the single-track segment to about 10 minutes, which would allow half-hourly bidirectional service (i.e. hourly counter-peak service in the PM but not the AM), though given the lack of sidings north of King City, all but the first counter-peak trains would need to turn back at Maple. Still, it would definitely allow at least one more counter-peak trip from Aurora, shortening the 6-hour gap to 5 or maybe 4 hours.

You have the two sections of completed double-track correct.

The section of single-track in between them, however, will be double-tracked along with the rest of the line from Parkdale to Aurora as part of the already-begun process.

Not sure what you mean. There is one completed double-track segment between Maple and King City, shown in green on that map, then the next thing north of there is the siding at Bradford if I recall correctly.

There is a siding at Bradford Station, although it's currently being used for trainset storage.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I believe the Davenport section is now "under procurement" which is a bit further along than "in planning". The RFQ was issued in August of this year.

What's not clear to me is the scope of that procurement package. It appears to only cover the stretch from Dundas St to St Clair? I'm wondering about the stretch from there up to Steeles?

This is where a Gantt chart is needed. In theory, double track could be installed from Strachan to Dundas St and that would give enough capacity for 30-minute service, at least up to around Maple. However, the Davenport overpass would be on the critical path to 30-minute service, because that level of service would be hard to run while construction is ongoing, and because CP is unlikely to tolerate cross traffic across the diamond every 15 minutes.

However^2, ML has promised the Davenport residents that service will be restricted to hourly until the line is electrified.

Does ML intend to string wires selectively while bits of the line are doubletracked? More likely, the second track will have to be put in place from end to end, then wires strung. The end result - no 30 minute service until all tracks are laid and wires strung, end to end. 2024 if we are lucky.

I'm analysing from the bleachers, so maybe ML has a different plan altogether. But this is an example of how the Minister's photo op claims about the project "moving forward" are just puffery. Tell us what the longest lead time item on the Gantt chart is, and show us that the work is being tackled with an eye to the critical path. The province is managing this like a fireworks show - pretty flash over here, awesome spectacle over there, but after a short time it's all just smoke and darkness.

Anyways, all day hourly service is so much better than what we had, so in the spirit of the season, we can be joyful. For now.

- Paul

I think the next goal is all day hourly service, and to build up the ridership. For me, look at the project management plan you described, if they are at the procurment stage, or near the end of it, they have already decided the scope or are close to deciding the scope for this phase. I think they just want to get sidings down imo, to get to hourly service all 7 days of the week.

 

[reaperexpress]

You have the two sections of completed double-track correct.

The section of single-track in between them, however, will be double-tracked along with the rest of the line from Parkdale to Aurora as part of the already-begun process.

I showed that segment as "under construction" in recognition of the reconstructions of Rutherford and Maple stations, both of which are actively under construction. The current construction doesn't actually include the second track itself, but after the Davenport Diamond, the station expansions are the second- and third-biggest infrastructure works required before laying the completed second track. Other than widening the bridge at Downsview Park station, the remaining segments of double-track are very straightforsard - the infrastructure is all preexisting and all that's missing is the rails.

 

[smallspy]

I showed that segment as "under construction" in recognition of the reconstructions of Rutherford and Maple stations, both of which are actively under construction. The current construction doesn't actually include the second track itself, but after the Davenport Diamond, the station expansions are the second- and third-biggest infrastructure works required before laying the completed second track. Other than widening the bridge at Downsview Park station, the remaining segments of double-track are very straightforsard - the infrastructure is all preexisting and all that's missing is the rails.

It's not though, as the grading between those two stations won't be done until the contractor for the whole works will be done. Hell, they haven't even graded the area through either station for the second tracks.

If you're going to argue that, why don't you also argue for Downsview Park Station, which has the grading and a short section of the second platform done?

Realistically it's silly to argue for either as neither section will be done in advance of the rest of the corridor in any case. While the corridor is likely to be opened in stages, that kind of decision is likely to be taken by the winner of the tender.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[joet00]

EDIT to add: GO's social media team confirms the 7:05 pm departure is unchanged, ending at Bradford (via Twitter).

And yet, today's tweet on @GOtransit BR again reads "Allandale Waterfront 20:45".

Anyone have the scoop?

 

[mdrejhon]

And yet, today's tweet on @GOtransit BR again reads "Allandale Waterfront 20:45".

Anyone have the scoop?

That's the 7:05pm departure, arriving at 8:45pm at Allandale Waterfront.

I checked the online GO schedule for a typical January 2018 weekday, that's what it says...

So yes, the train is extended to Allandale Waterfront. I trust the online/twitter more than I trust the paper schedule or not-yet-trained CSR rep.

 

[Megaton327]

I'm in the habit of monitoring some transit-related twitter feeds extra closely, and recently GO has had a LOT of complaints from people who live in Barrie who are positively enraged about the new AD2W service due to most of the trains ending at Aurora.

I'm in shock about this. Maybe I'm just not seeing something obvious, but can someone tell me why people are angry that instead of transferring from a bus to another bus at East Gwillimbury, they're transferring from a bus to a train at Aurora? It makes no sense. There's virtually no difference in the transfer experience, then the train is a superior experience to the bus (slightly slower compared to the DVP on the rare occasion there's no traffic, but faster and more reliable where traffic or weather are concerns, and more comfortable+spacious+has washrooms and some power outlets). This is in no way comparable to the Stouffville change that added a forced transfer, since there was an existing bus-to-bus transfer on this line nearby already.

I think it's most likely jealousy/indignation and a total lack of comprehension of the fact that trains need track in order to operate. Perhaps they should have built a couple of sidings between Aurora and Barrie, and none south of Aurora, and only have trains Barrie-Aurora then a bus to continue to Union? Holy cow...

 

[Streety McCarface]

I'm in the habit of monitoring some transit-related twitter feeds extra closely, and recently GO has had a LOT of complaints from people who live in Barrie who are positively enraged about the new AD2W service due to most of the trains ending at Aurora.

I'm in shock about this. Maybe I'm just not seeing something obvious, but can someone tell me why people are angry that instead of transferring from a bus to another bus at East Gwillimbury, they're transferring from a bus to a train at Aurora? It makes no sense. There's virtually no difference in the transfer experience, then the train is a superior experience to the bus (slightly slower compared to the DVP on the rare occasion there's no traffic, but faster and more reliable where traffic or weather are concerns, and more comfortable+spacious+has washrooms and some power outlets). This is in no way comparable to the Stouffville change that added a forced transfer, since there was an existing bus-to-bus transfer on this line nearby already.

I think it's most likely jealousy/indignation and a total lack of comprehension of the fact that trains need track in order to operate. Perhaps they should have built a couple of sidings between Aurora and Barrie, and none south of Aurora, and only have trains Barrie-Aurora then a bus to continue to Union? Holy cow...

People just like bitching. Also, us in Kitchener find that the bus-train trips are generally faster than the all-train trips (except the express). Here, we really need weekend buses to downtown Toronto or Hwy 407 station. That would be a blessing.

 

[crs1026]

I think it's most likely jealousy/indignation and a total lack of comprehension of the fact that trains need track in order to operate. Perhaps they should have built a couple of sidings between Aurora and Barrie, and none south of Aurora, and only have trains Barrie-Aurora then a bus to continue to Union? Holy cow...

Perception is reality, which is why effective change managers need to be good at managing PR.

ML and Ontario's feel-good PR strategy is backfiring. They could have managed expectations. Instead, they are "moving forward" with everything. Press releases and photo-ops and puffery for all.

ML won't come clean with the reality that this stuff takes time, and they won't explain what time-consuming construction work required. Instead, they announce grandiose station expansions. Nice stations, no new track. Is it any wonder people think things should be better? It's what they have been told to expect.

- Paul