GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Allandale25]

Thank goodness for UT then.

 

[ssiguy2]

While that report on transit ridership brings up some very good points about land use around the stations, I can't stand it when people complain that it will not "ease congestion". There is not a single rapid transit line built on the planet that eases congestion. It may result in less congestion initially but within a couple short years those gains are gone.

In growing cities the new line may get better ridership levels but the temporary reduction in traffic will quickly be filled up again as people think that the traffic is reduced so will drive and the rapid transit line brings more people {and cars} to the area to boot. Haven't you ever wondered why many of the world's most congested cities are also those with the best transit systems? The very MOST a city can hope for is less growth of congestion but this idea that any transit investment will reduce congestion is lunacy. Congestion is very bad now in Toronto and that will only get worse. Period.

 

[Leo_Chan]

While that report on transit ridership brings up some very good points about land use around the stations, I can't stand it when people complain that it will not "ease congestion". There is not a single rapid transit line built on the planet that eases congestion. It may result in less congestion initially but within a couple short years those gains are gone.

In growing cities the new line may get better ridership levels but the temporary reduction in traffic will quickly be filled up again as people think that the traffic is reduced so will drive and the rapid transit line brings more people {and cars} to the area to boot. Haven't you ever wondered why many of the world's most congested cities are also those with the best transit systems? The very MOST a city can hope for is less growth of congestion but this idea that any transit investment will reduce congestion is lunacy. Congestion is very bad now in Toronto and that will only get worse. Period.

Congestion can be “eliminated” if you just remove all the roads and highways .

 

[Dan416]

Re Brampton, either we'll have more information before the June 2018 election or we won't. I'm surprised the media hasn't picked more up on the budget figure that's attached to the "Kitchener Extension". Will be interesting to see how that'll fit into the platforms of the parties, and if local candidates mention it.

The $4 million for Milton is downright depressing, especially considering it's the busiest line after Lakeshore E/W.

 

[nfitz]

Milton, I heard 2040 a while ago, is this correct?

It's in the by 2041 of the September 2017 draft Regional Transportation Plan. It's not going anywhere until they can get CP off that rail line, at least as far as Cooksville.

If they can actually do that, something could happen quite quickly I'd think. The 2008 Big Move modelling put the RER service to Cooksville as the busiest GO RER service after Lakeshore and Brampton (not Bramalea, but Brampton), and the 2-day all-way service from Milton to Union/Summerhill was third only to the Seaton GO service and the 2-way all-day service to Bradford.

And shame about Brampton.

Ditto for CN.

Leave it like the old Ex platforms have sat for ages.

There's older examples in the GTA. You can still one of the Riverdale station platforms, that CN stopped using in 1932. The old Exhibition platforms were used by GO Transit at least as late as 1968 (though I could swear I remember climbing the stairs thre to catch a GO Train in the late 1970s or 1980 ... but is my memory tricking me? Was there something there on display during the Ex? Which is possible, as there's a switch on both sides between there and the current station.

 

[drum118]

It's in the by 2041 of the September 2017 draft Regional Transportation Plan. It's not going anywhere until they can get CP off that rail line, at least as far as Cooksville.

If they can actually do that, something could happen quite quickly I'd think. The 2008 Big Move modelling put the RER service to Cooksville as the busiest GO RER service after Lakeshore and Brampton (not Bramalea, but Brampton), and the 2-day all-way service from Milton to Union/Summerhill was third only to the Seaton GO service and the 2-way all-day service to Bradford.

Ditto for CN.

There's older examples in the GTA. You can still one of the Riverdale station platforms, that CN stopped using in 1932. The old Exhibition platforms were used by GO Transit at least as late as 1968 (though I could swear I remember climbing the stairs thre to catch a GO Train in the late 1970s or 1980 ... but is my memory tricking me? Was there something there on display during the Ex? Which is possible, as there's a switch on both sides between there and the current station.

Wynne ran on a platform calling for the Milton Line to be 4 track by 2021/22 at a cost about $1.8 Billion and CP was happy with it. It went no where since then and no reason for not doing it.

If you are waiting for CP to move, it maybe in your next life, but not this one.

The Georgetown line can be 4 track with the exception of downtown Brampton that will be 3 without ripping out buildings and closing streets. You need 3 tracks to KW from Georgetown, but if planning long term to London, make sure it can be upgraded to 4 tracks.

Metrolinx has wasted years trying to improve service since they put the cart before the horse. Then only thinks long trains are the answers when you can use various length and headway. We saw what the first board of director do in wasting time and money to the point they got sack. The 2nd group didn't fair well and sack. The current setup isn't better than the 2nd one.

I am hoping the new CEO has some balls to stand up to Queen Park and do what is needed first, not what QP wants, regardless who is in power.

Its time to get on with electrifying the system and different type of service than RER since they will do more than what plan.

The Lakeshore needs to be 4 track as well.

At the same time, need to start support local service to get riders to/from stations since the roads will never be able to handle the extra 2.2 million cars by 2041 when it can't do it today.

 

[nfitz]

If you are waiting for CP to move, it maybe in your next life, but not this one.

I was assuming that there'd be a bypass scheme, or some arrangement for Metrolinx to run/control 2 or 3 tracks along the corridor from the Junction to Cooksville.

CP certainly isn't going to give it away ...

 

[drum118]

I was assuming that there'd be a bypass scheme, or some arrangement for Metrolinx to run/control 2 or 3 tracks along the corridor from the Junction to Cooksville.

CP certainly isn't going to give it away ...

The plan long ago was to have Milton Line 3 track by 2011 with a number of them in place now, but for what every reason, it wasn't finish. You need the 3rd track from Kipling to Cooksville, hwy 403 to Milton. All the bridges with the exception of 2 I know of, will support 3 now. Hurontario and the Humber River bridge being the 2 that needs a 3rd track bridge. Hurontario will be rebuilt for 4 starting 2019.

The plan was to have GO on the north side of the corridor with a fly under at Humber to get to the south side allowing CP to run free. Lisger Station was built for a future north track for the current platform.

 

[ssiguy2]

It sure would be a better use of time and money if they spent the amount they are now on electrification and not building garages.

It would also be great if Metrolinx would stand up to QP but they have zero leverage. QP is paying for 100% of GO extensions/upgrades and GO RER which is a scenario every other city on the planet {including ones in the rest of the province} would give their left nut for. Toronto doesn't appreciate how good it's got it. QP can very legitimately tell Toronto if you want such & such done now then help pay for it but until such a time, shut up. Not the best way to run things but seeing GO & GO RER is being paid for by the province, Toronto is hardly in a position to bitch.

 

[nfitz]

Nitpick: GO schedules approximately 3 minutes for each station stop (that's decelerating from cruising speed, stopping, disembarking and embarking all passengers, and accelerating back up to speed) where the track speed is 80mph. As the track speed drops the amount of time required to schedule a stop decreases as well.

So, 3 minutes for Downsview Park one Line 1, 3 minutes for Caledonia one Line 5, 3 minutes for Bloor-Landsdowne on Line 2, 3 minutes at Liberty, and 3 minutes at Front-Spadina. And another 3 minutes for the long-deferred Highway 7/Transitway stop, if they ever add it.

So 18 more minutes for Rutherford passengers, turning the current 2-stop 27-29 minutes commute to 45-47 minutes.

Though perhaps only 2 minutes per stop, because it will never be going fast again ...

 

[innsertnamehere]

Electrification is expected to offset most of those with it's increased acceleration times.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Re Brampton, either we'll have more information before the June 2018 election or we won't. I'm surprised the media hasn't picked more up on the budget figure that's attached to the "Kitchener Extension". Will be interesting to see how that'll fit into the platforms of the parties, and if local candidates mention it.

Thank you.

It's in the by 2041 of the September 2017 draft Regional Transportation Plan. It's not going anywhere until they can get CP off that rail line, at least as far as Cooksville.

If they can actually do that, something could happen quite quickly I'd think. The 2008 Big Move modelling put the RER service to Cooksville as the busiest GO RER service after Lakeshore and Brampton (not Bramalea, but Brampton), and the 2-day all-way service from Milton to Union/Summerhill was third only to the Seaton GO service and the 2-way all-day service to Bradford.

Ditto for CN.

There's older examples in the GTA. You can still one of the Riverdale station platforms, that CN stopped using in 1932. The old Exhibition platforms were used by GO Transit at least as late as 1968 (though I could swear I remember climbing the stairs thre to catch a GO Train in the late 1970s or 1980 ... but is my memory tricking me? Was there something there on display during the Ex? Which is possible, as there's a switch on both sides between there and the current station.

Metrolinx is really dropping the ball here.

They also don't when Hamilton will get all day go service, but it's not going out of west harbour, but the Hamilton go centre.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/metrolinx-update-1.4404064

 

[Allandale25]

^ Rather than Metrolinx, I'd put the responsibility on the Ministry of Transportation to negotiate the deals with CP/CN for Hamilton and CP for Milton.

 

[raptor]

From link:

We plan to start GO Train service at Downsview Park Station at the end of this year, after the TTC has started their service on the Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension on December 17, 2017. Note that Downsview, TTC’s current line 1 terminus station at Sheppard West and Allen Road, will be renamed Sheppard West.

I think it's pretty much confirmed that service to Downsview Park station starts on Dec 30.

 

[robmausser]

And in the case of Brampton, and Milton, the answer is?

There are certainly good things happening in some places. In others, I wonder if the voters and local pols will see past the windowdressing.

- Paul

The fact that it would take a long time for the Milton all day to come to fruition. Well beyond the 2018 election cycle. They want projects with quick turn arounds