GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[rbt]

Toronto got finessed.

Maybe. There's a good chance in 2019 we're going to find out exactly how much pull Tory has with his Conservative friends; not unlike Lastman and the Harris government.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Stouffville route is the only RER line to actually get implemented (and electrification of a single track on Lake Shore East for feeding trains into the system).

 

[reaperexpress]

How about some new content?

Here's my Canadian Commuter Rail Summary for 2016 (comparing January 2016 to January 2017 schedules):

Improvements are highlighted in green, while worsenings (dis-improvements? regressions?) are highlighted in red.

Description of findings:
from ontariotrafficman.wordpress.com/2016/12/27/canadian-commuter-rail-summary-2016

For the second year in a row, there were no significant changes to commuter rail service outside of Ontario, and GO Transit introduced significant new off-peak train service.

New Services

The big accomplishment for 2016 was the introduction of two-way weekend train service on the Barrie line starting December 31st. This now puts the Barrie line in the unusual situation of having more trains on weekends than on weekdays. The new schedule has trains operating every every 75 minutes between Toronto to Aurora, which is a compromise in order to introduce two-way service on time despite construction delays on the double-track segment between York University and Rutherford stations. When that construction is finally wrapped up next year, service should improve to every 60 minutes.

On December 1st, the Richmond Hill line was extended north by 8 km to the new Gormley Station, which probably takes the title of the most isolated station on the GO Transit network. It really is in the middle of nowhere. The new segment is faster than the rest of the line which brings up the line’s overall average speed, but I didn’t highlight the speed in green since travel times on the existing portion of the line remain unchanged.

The Lakeshore West and Lakeshore East lines had a mixed bag this year. While the total number of trains increased thanks to some new counter-peak trips, the peak-direction frequency actually decreased by up to 2 trains per hour due to commuter express trips being spread out over a larger period. This change was due to construction-related platform closures at Union Station, so fortunately the reduction in that line’s peak capacity is only temporary.

2016 also saw the usual smattering of new peak-direction commuter trains, with 1 new round trip each on the Milton line and Stouffville line.

Changed Travel Times

The biggest speed improvement this year is on the Kitchener line, which had end-to-end travel times reduced by 12 minutes thanks to the introduction of express service between Toronto and Kitchener.

The Barrie line also saw a 5-minute travel time improvement thanks to some construction-related slow zones being lifted.

The Lakeshore East and Stouffville lines have had time added to schedules for the second year in a row. The Lakeshore East line has lost the title of fastest commuter rail service in the country (now tied with the Barrie Line), and the Stouffville line has further solidified its title of slowest line in Ontario (previously held by the Richmond Hill line). Hopefully both of these slowdowns are construction-related and will be reversed in the future.

 

[mdrejhon]

I noticed they spread out the LSW trains (over the three hour peak) to handle the platform closures at Union. So less LSW trains "per peak hour" at this time. Earlier, there were eight trains from 4:45 through 5:45pm.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If CP rail wasn't a problem, Milton would be getting the next expansion, and rightly so.

 

[drum118]

If CP rail wasn't a problem, Milton would be getting the next expansion, and rightly so.

Not really true as there was a plan for 3 tracks by 2011 and 4 tracks by 2021 under Wynne 2014 election platform, but the money never made its way to the table. There are a few locations where the 3rd track was added, but very very rare does GO use it. Both Kipling and Erindale Stations have the 3rd track.

CP would have next to no interference than it does today if the 4 track was built. GO would run on the north side of the corridor and do a flyunder at Humber River to get to the south side. Only the Streetsville station would require some rebuilding to deal the 4 tracks corridor.

 

[ssiguy2]

Thanks for the commuter rail chart reaperexpress. It really exemplifies how unsuccessful and money draining the UPX is having by far the most frequency {and on Sundays more frequency than all other CR lines in the country, and yet has the second lowest ridership of just 9,000/day.

 

[robmausser]

Thanks for the commuter rail chart reaperexpress. It really exemplifies how unsuccessful and money draining the UPX is having by far the most frequency {and on Sundays more frequency than all other CR lines in the country, and yet has the second lowest ridership of just 9,000/day.

Not necessarily. You can't just look at numbers.

UPX has different rolling stock which uses way less fuel, for example than a huge GO train.

You need to see ridership and compare with operating costs to really get a better understanding of justifications.

Also, the locations of stops places value upon the system, not just ridership.

Having a stop at one of the busiest airports in North America, changes the economic landscape, tourism, and accessibility of a city that cannot simply be equated for in ridership.

One rider of the UPX could be a visitor from overseas willing to spend tons of $$ in our city, or a CEO of a large company outside of Canada, looking to implement business in our city.

A connection to the airport is vital in ways that cannot be expressed in ridership.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Not really true as there was a plan for 3 tracks by 2011 and 4 tracks by 2021 under Wynne 2014 election platform, but the money never made its way to the table. There are a few locations where the 3rd track was added, but very very rare does GO use it. Both Kipling and Erindale Stations have the 3rd track.

CP would have next to no interference than it does today if the 4 track was built. GO would run on the north side of the corridor and do a flyunder at Humber River to get to the south side. Only the Streetsville station would require some rebuilding to deal the 4 tracks corridor.

And this cost around 2 billion now right? And if we did this, Cambridge would also want an extension right? I think it should cost less that 2 billion if there is some of the track laid down already.

What about Richmond Hill? Should that get all day service? (And the track upgrades with it?) It would be faster than the subway.

 

[drum118]

And this cost around 2 billion now right? And if we did this, Cambridge would also want an extension right? I think it should cost less that 2 billion if there is some of the track laid down already.

What about Richmond Hill? Should that get all day service? (And the track upgrades with it?) It would be faster than the subway.

Yes there is a long range to get service to Cambridge and it will be very costly to do so, since it mostly single track in the first place. Will need 3 track. Best to start with buses to Milton. The cost to do the Milton line was about $2 billion in 2014 and on the high side, unless a fair number of grade separation are in that price. The Humber flyunder will be costly.

RHC needs 4 tracks and far cheaper than doing the subway extension as well faster, assuming everyone going downtown. My recommendation years ago calling for twin tracking the existing line and having 4 tracks in CN corridor, as well electrify at about $1.2 billion.

Again, as long GO Transit/Metrolinx think 12 cars is the way to go, not short trains for off peak, waste of money. Once the lines are electrify or have DMU, them you can run shorter train at a lower cost.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes there is a long range to get service to Cambridge and it will be very costly to do so, since it mostly single track in the first place. Will need 3 track. Best to start with buses to Milton. The cost to do the Milton line was about $2 billion in 2014 and on the high side, unless a fair number of grade separation are in that price. The Humber flyunder will be costly.

RHC needs 4 tracks and far cheaper than doing the subway extension as well faster, assuming everyone going downtown. My recommendation years ago calling for twin tracking the existing line and having 4 tracks in CN corridor, as well electrify at about $1.2 billion.

Again, as long GO Transit/Metrolinx think 12 cars is the way to go, not short trains for off peak, waste of money. Once the lines are electrify or have DMU, them you can run shorter train at a lower cost.

Ok, so that means buses to cambridge to start. Fair. I see that Erindale has three tracks like you said too. The Humber flyunder, how would it work? And for RHC, would the tracks stop at Richmond Hill or go to Bloomington station?

Finally do you think usage would increase by a lot or by a little on the other go lines once all day service is completed? I'm kind of shocked Brampton is behind Milton to be honest.

 

[reaperexpress]

Not necessarily. You can't just look at numbers.

UPX has different rolling stock which uses way less fuel, for example than a huge GO train.

You need to see ridership and compare with operating costs to really get a better understanding of justifications.

Fuel is one thing but an even bigger one is track fees/track ownership costs. Most other commuter rail lines operate over CN or CP lines so each individual train has to pay track fees. UP trains operate entirely over Metrolinx railways so they don't pay any track fees. The only marginal track cost per train is the maintenance incurred by operating more trains, which is minimal with such tiny lightweight trains.

You also have more efficient operator utilization than the traditional split-shift commuter train setup where operators drive into the city for a couple hours early in the morning and out of the city for a couple hours in the afternoon with a big empty partially-paid period in between. On UPX, you can have less demanding shifts where an operator drives for a working day then gets to go home.

Then there's the equipment maintenance. The entire UP Express fleet is just six 3-car trains (currently divided into 7 smaller trains) to operate those whopping 83 roundtrips per day - an average of 13.8 daily roundtrips per owned trainset (16.6 roundtrips per trainset in service). That's a lot less equipment purchase, storage and maintenance costs per operated trip than a traditional commuter rail service where a single trainset only operates 1 or 2 roundtrips per day (not even considering spares).

 

[crs1026]

Then there's the equipment maintenance. The entire UP Express fleet is just six 3-car trains (currently divided into 7 smaller trains) to operate those whopping 83 roundtrips per day - an average of 13.8 daily roundtrips per owned trainset (16.6 roundtrips per trainset in service). That's a lot less equipment purchase, storage and maintenance costs per operated trip than a traditional commuter rail service where a single trainset only operates 1 or 2 roundtrips per day (not even considering spares).

13 roundtrips per day (approx) times 26 miles/roundtrip = 338 miles per day = 541 km per day or almost 3800 km per week (7 day week). Much healthier utilisation than most non-LSE/LSW GO trainsets which are lucky to exceed 80 miles or 130 km per day, 640 km per week (5 day week).
A bit more wear and tear, but better on a $-to-operate per seat per km basis I'm sure.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

Ok, so that means buses to cambridge to start. Fair. I see that Erindale has three tracks like you said too. The Humber flyunder, how would it work? And for RHC, would the tracks stop at Richmond Hill or go to Bloomington station?

Finally do you think usage would increase by a lot or by a little on the other go lines once all day service is completed? I'm kind of shocked Brampton is behind Milton to be honest.

I don't know the ridership north of RH to say if tracks should go north as 4 track.

The Erindale 3rd tracks runs from 403 to Confederation Rd and the longest 3rd track. CP has used the 3rd track at Kipling to store cars in the past.

You do the fly under at Humber like the other ones, except you will be doing it on an angle to get from one side to the other. There was talk about doing on the east side of the Humber. It will cost more to do than the others.

To run all day service to Cambridge, you only need a 2 car DMU for years before adding more cars. To add a 2nd let alone a 3rd track to Cambridge from Milton will cost a few billions. The cost to do will be over kill for ridership needs let alone cost recover for decades. For the next few decades, you will only need buses as the ridership is not there to support hourly trains if CP will allow it.

Other than the Milton line, ridership increase going to all day service for other lines will be small going hourly and very costly going to 15 minutes service. Even parts of the Milton line will be hard press seeing ridership for 30 minutes, let alone 15. This is were you need DMU's, in place of existing fleet, let alone going EMU.

One only has to look at the different between the east and west section of the Lakeshore line with 30 minute service to see what will happen on other lines. Once the Lakeshore gets down to 15 minutes, the line will have to be split since the east will not have the ridership ratio as the west to the point only every 2nd west trains needs to go east. That is why Metrolinx has different service plan for the lines that don't meet 15 minutes headway. Even in Europe, getting 15 minute service is not that easy in larger cities where service goes out the city for 30 minute trips.

One has to look at the wear and tear on equipment to see how expensive it is to run long trains than short ones, regardless that there is no different in crew operation cost. Because of the high cost to makeup or break trains down, GO has left trains as one unite and only increase the length from 6-8-10 to 10-12 cars. With DMU or EMU, the cost is cheaper to make trains longer or shorter with EMU being the cheapest.

Again, trains don't go where riders want to go in the first place and some of that may happen when the GO Crosstown line is built in CP corridor. Then there is the grade crossing that needs to be looked at. Having service on CN lines would help as well.

 

[reaperexpress]

One only has to look at the different between the east and west section of the Lakeshore line with 30 minute service to see what will happen on other lines. Once the Lakeshore gets down to 15 minutes, the line will have to be split since the east will not have the ridership ratio as the west to the point only every 2nd west trains needs to go east.

There's no need to separate Lakeshore East from Lakeshore West because in addition to having higher ridership, Lakeshore West also has a greater variety of trip types. While LSE is mostly just a commuter rail link from the suburbs to Toronto, LSW will also act as an intercity route between several cities in Southwestern Ontario.

A reasonable near-term scenario for base service might be:
1 train per hour Niagara - Toronto, making limited stops between Hamilton and Toronto,
1 train per hour Hamilton - Toronto (or Unionville?), making limited stops, and
2 trains per hour Hamilton - Oshawa, making all stops.

Further down the line, the local service could be increased to 4 trains per hour across LSE+LSW, but even then LSW would have at at least 50% more capacity than LSE. The Niagara service will be operated by diesel-hauled bilevels for the forseable future, which likely have higher passenger capacity than the EMUs we will run on local service.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't know the ridership north of RH to say if tracks should go north as 4 track.

The Erindale 3rd tracks runs from 403 to Confederation Rd and the longest 3rd track. CP has used the 3rd track at Kipling to store cars in the past.

You do the fly under at Humber like the other ones, except you will be doing it on an angle to get from one side to the other. There was talk about doing on the east side of the Humber. It will cost more to do than the others.

To run all day service to Cambridge, you only need a 2 car DMU for years before adding more cars. To add a 2nd let alone a 3rd track to Cambridge from Milton will cost a few billions. The cost to do will be over kill for ridership needs let alone cost recover for decades. For the next few decades, you will only need buses as the ridership is not there to support hourly trains if CP will allow it.

Other than the Milton line, ridership increase going to all day service for other lines will be small going hourly and very costly going to 15 minutes service. Even parts of the Milton line will be hard press seeing ridership for 30 minutes, let alone 15. This is were you need DMU's, in place of existing fleet, let alone going EMU.

One only has to look at the different between the east and west section of the Lakeshore line with 30 minute service to see what will happen on other lines. Once the Lakeshore gets down to 15 minutes, the line will have to be split since the east will not have the ridership ratio as the west to the point only every 2nd west trains needs to go east. That is why Metrolinx has different service plan for the lines that don't meet 15 minutes headway. Even in Europe, getting 15 minute service is not that easy in larger cities where service goes out the city for 30 minute trips.

One has to look at the wear and tear on equipment to see how expensive it is to run long trains than short ones, regardless that there is no different in crew operation cost. Because of the high cost to makeup or break trains down, GO has left trains as one unite and only increase the length from 6-8-10 to 10-12 cars. With DMU or EMU, the cost is cheaper to make trains longer or shorter with EMU being the cheapest.

Again, trains don't go where riders want to go in the first place and some of that may happen when the GO Crosstown line is built in CP corridor. Then there is the grade crossing that needs to be looked at. Having service on CN lines would help as well.

Yeah I definitely see where you coming from with regards to service. I do have some other questions. I have been to Streetsville station. I wonder how they are going to fit two extra tracks there. And previously the plans was for all day service to just Lisgar. I think they should do the whole. I believe Langstaff. Richmond Hill, Gormley and Bloomington will need two platforms for all day service. And also about Newmarket. Metrolinx spent all that money on VIVA - Davis...they can't build a second platform at Newmarket without moving the station, why? They instead are going to spend at least 90 million for a new station at Mulock Drive later on. I don't get the thinking behind this. Finally, what is the reasonsing of doing the Bowmanville extension over CP Rail lines not just using the CN lines?

There's no need to separate Lakeshore East from Lakeshore West because in addition to having higher ridership, Lakeshore West also has a greater variety of trip types. While LSE is mostly just a commuter rail link from the suburbs to Toronto, LSW will also act as an intercity route between several cities in Southwestern Ontario.

A reasonable near-term scenario for base service might be:
1 train per hour Niagara - Toronto, making limited stops between Hamilton and Toronto,
1 train per hour Hamilton - Toronto (or Unionville?), making limited stops, and
2 trains per hour Hamilton - Oshawa, making all stops.

Further down the line, the local service could be increased to 4 trains per hour across LSE+LSW, but even then LSW would have at at least 50% more capacity than LSE. The Niagara service will be operated by diesel-hauled bilevels for the forseable future, which likely have higher passenger capacity than the EMUs we will run on local service.

Can Niagara even support one train per hour? I know the plan is a forced transfer at Hamilton - James street.