TOareaFan
Superstar
First I have heard that....seems a bit of waste of money
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
First I have heard that....seems a bit of waste of money
Allandale25
Senior Member
I'm probably going way out on a limb here but I wonder if they'll divert any LSE GO Trains to the CP line and start using the North Toronto Station on a temporary basis while there is work taking place at Union? I know, highly unlikely but it's fun to think about. I also realize that Summerhill isn't an accessible station so that could be a challenge. Plus getting the track time from CP Rail.
Allandale25
Senior Member
They already own the track and I don't think it's in terrible condition so I can't see it being that expensive. Did the RFP include any financial details like the projected budget? Or would we only know when the successful bidder is announced?
mdrejhon
Senior Member
To me, this is left field. Out of the blue.
Originally, I thought this was saving a near-dormant corridor into a piggy bank, for ultra-long-term future investment like the Don sub.
Anyone who has access to the full document:
How much is the budget for Canpa sub?
Will it be electrified?
Will it now become accessible from both the east/west?
Does it provide train deadheading benefits?
What other operational flexibilities are gained?
Will it help GO RER electrification (e.g. shutting down specific corridors)?
TOareaFan
Superstar
it is the 24/7 part (the part I bolded) that I have never heard before and think is likely a waste of money.
drum118
Superstar
Even as it stands today, Canpa Sub offer a faster way to/from the Willowbrook yard for Milton Trains.
It would help GO to run bypass service on the weekend when CP is slow to take the LSW out of service when bridges and other work requires the line to be close.
Metrolinx is play everything these day close to their vest, to keep from knowing things until too late to stop them or off the radar.
What Metrolinx has plan for the Canpa Sub is limit to a few people and part of the big picture they see, not what we see.
What things cost is done behind close doors.
Unlike the north end of the sub, there is no Y at the south end to go east without buying the property to do at great cost.
It would help GO to run bypass service on the weekend when CP is slow to take the LSW out of service when bridges and other work requires the line to be close.
Metrolinx is play everything these day close to their vest, to keep from knowing things until too late to stop them or off the radar.
What Metrolinx has plan for the Canpa Sub is limit to a few people and part of the big picture they see, not what we see.
What things cost is done behind close doors.
Unlike the north end of the sub, there is no Y at the south end to go east without buying the property to do at great cost.
drum118
Superstar
I have being calling for 7/24 for years, as we live, work, shop and play 7/24 these days.
It been below the radar for years of going 7/24 on a few lines. Again, you run different type of trains to do it, not the 10-12 car trains we do now. If on EMU lines, only need to run 3-5 car trains for that service.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Sorry, I didn't realize or catch that you had bolded that.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
I asked on Twitter what the plan was for Canpa and Anne-Marie Aikins from Metrolinx said:
"Given we are in tender, there isn't much more I can say until we award contract. Project is to bring more service to LSW"
https://twitter.com/femwriter/status/762755483665047552
Jonny5
Senior Member
It's already running 18 hours a day so the marginal cost is pretty low, especially if it's run every 1 hour and takes over the late night Lakeshore bus routes.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Especially when electrified. 4-coach EMUs would have operating costs roughly 1/10th of a diesel locomotive-pulled 12-coach, bringing it right into the territory of the GO bus operating costs...
TOareaFan
Superstar
At what point (in ridership terms) does running buses become cheaper than running trains?
Jonny5
Senior Member
That's a great question and it's a damn shame GO/Metrolinx release no where near enough information to figure that out. It's ridiculous they still refuse even a simple breakdown of revenue beyond bus vs. train. I can only imagine there would be a very big embarrassment if they released info by route.
I wonder if this can this be discovered with an access to information request?
drum118
Superstar
Do the math.
A train cost $600 an hour regardless of it size and can carry X riders. A train can do a round trip in x time depending which line its on and where its going.
A bus can carry 80 seated using DD buses at about $200 an hour. Its round trip could be 2-3 times longer than a train depending on the time of day it travels and where.
To find out the numbers of riders needed for each service, you need an average fare to cover the various stop to help you to arrive at an 85-100% cost recovery ratio. You divide that fare into the hourly cost to see what the numbers are needed.
In most cases, there isn't enough bus riders on various routes to justify the needs for a train in the first place.
From the few times I have travel to/from Kitchener, it is a hit and miss point to cover average cost ratio and that various from the time of day as well the day of the week.
All cost are based on a min of 4 hours of service.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
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Not that big of a deal. They need to use opposite Y's at each end anyway to keep the train pointing in the same direction (locomotive on east end of consist).