GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

Physically inaccesible to CP?

The track is still in place, definitely. ML's purchase hopefully ensures that will be the case going forward.

A CP yard job (which calls at Lambton) still uses the Canpa Sub to switch two industries in former CP territory at the south end of the Canpa, within sight of Willowbrook. It runs most days.

I suspect CN would stand on its "right" to deliver to Willowbrook. Railways are regulated monopolies and follow few rules of open competition. I wonder if Uber has ever considered......nah.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

Could it be that this information is outdated? Metrolinx is the owner of the Oakville sub...

I was in UMLER 3 weeks ago looking up some other info when I stumbled upon it, so yeah, it's accurate.

And while GO owns the subdivision itself, most of the service and industry tracks in the Mimico complex - the ones not part of the GO and VIA facilities - are still owned by CN.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[44 North]

So will this "Canpa Sub" potentially see revenue service in the future? Does it connect Milton line to LSW, and vice versa; or offer the future opportunity for a Union diversion from the west by way of the Midtown corridor?

 

[smallspy]

So will this "Canpa Sub" potentially see revenue service in the future? Does it connect Milton line to LSW, and vice versa; or offer the future opportunity for a Union diversion from the west by way of the Midtown corridor?

Why would you put Canpa Sub in quotations? That's the name of the piece of track.

As for revenue service - not likely. It is mainly to keep GO's options open in case of any incidents on the Lakeshore West Line.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[44 North]

Ok cool, yeah I guess it's pretty wise for the Prov/Mlinx to purchase any tracks if they become available. And I used quotes because I wasn't sure if it was Canpa or Canpar, and whether that was the actual name of the track/sub or a colloquial nickname for a spur leading off this piece of track.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Why would you put Canpa Sub in quotations? That's the name of the piece of track.

As for revenue service - not likely. It is mainly to keep GO's options open in case of any incidents on the Lakeshore West Line.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Would have been useful for the Dufferin Bridge demolition. Remember that they suspended service from Union to Mimico?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Would have been useful for the Dufferin Bridge demolition. Remember that they suspended service from Union to Mimico?

Except for large post event crowds, not really. Most crews are not qualified on the Galt & Canpa subs and would need a pilot(basically a navigator). If it was just half a dozen trains or something that wouldn't be too much of a problem but there are 23 jobs that work on Saturday and Sunday. There's no chance they they'd be able to allocate, worse case, up to 46 pilots for those days. There's also little chance CP would allow 30 minute or even hourly service on their line all day. Basically the best you could do is run some kind of reduced service, which they have on occasion in weekends past on the Milton line. Plus with a zone speed of 15mph it would take about 12 minutes just to clear the Canpa sub. Which means it would take about 40-45 minutes(12 + 16/20 Kipling to Union + 10/12 Canpa to PC w/stop at LB) to get to Port Credit vs only 25 minutes by bus. Except for post game or event crowds, it makes more sense and is more economical to simply run the bus service in between Union & PC as they did for that weekend.

I wonder if Uber has ever considered......nah.

shudder* Thank god such a thing would never be possible. I know your only joking but some people might actually think such a thing might be possible. Let me end any possible discussion on that right here and now. Heck it's actually much more likely that uber could run a quasi airline service than a commuter train service as it's regulated in an entirely different way. One can get a pilot license, own a plane and fly unrestricted in the sky(except for no-fly zones). But there is no such equivalent in the railroad. Aside from the obvious - I don't know any private person that owns a functional and certified locomotive/DMU or other self-propelled railroad vehicle , we don't get a license to drive a train. Instead we're certified through a private(or crown) corporation to operate on their their tracks. One needs said companies/corperations permission to run on their territory and the mere idea of letting Joe-blow off the street to legally operate would set off an endless cascade of laughter at any head office. It's a long an arduous process to become legal authorized and qualified to operate rail equipment. Heck, highly capable engineers with 20+ years of service(equal to 5000 days or 40,000+ hours of experience!!!) are getting "banned" from running on certain companies territory because they made one mistake in their entire career.

 

[robmausser]

I think we should use the Canpa sub to create an LRT from Mimco to the airport along the Hydro corridor

The Canpa can still be used for the occasional freight and GO train routing, just like what they are doing with the Waterloo Spur in Kitchener with the ION LRT.

Etobicoke RT FTW!!

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I think we should use the Canpa sub to create an LRT from Mimco to the airport along the Hydro corridor

The Canpa can still be used for the occasional freight and GO train routing, just like what they are doing with the Waterloo Spur in Kitchener with the ION LRT.

Etobicoke RT FTW!!

Interesting idea, but I'm not keen on it, mostly because of surrounding land use. The Canpa sub is mostly surrounded by commercial/industrial.

North of Bloor, it's low-density residential. Can you imagine the NIMBY backlash?!

The province has already marked the 427 as being a rapid transit corridor, and that would fit better with the high-density developments occurring in the vicinity. Yes, a very wide highway is not optimal but not unprecedented; it happen in the US all the time.

I believe Steve Munro has also already suggested using an abandoned multimodal yard adjacent to the Canpa sub as a future Line 2 subway yard. A suitable use IMO.

 

[robmausser]

Interesting idea, but I'm not keen on it, mostly because of surrounding land use. The Canpa sub is mostly surrounded by commercial/industrial.

North of Bloor, it's low-density residential. Can you imagine the NIMBY backlash?!

The province has already marked the 427 as being a rapid transit corridor, and that would fit better with the high-density developments occurring in the vicinity. Yes, a very wide highway is not optimal but not unprecedented; it happen in the US all the time.

I believe Steve Munro has also already suggested using an abandoned multimodal yard adjacent to the Canpa sub as a future Line 2 subway yard. A suitable use IMO.

I agree land around it is not ideal for a typical LRT, but I envisioned it more as an express service.

Stops would be:

-Humber Lakeshore Campus

-new Go station on Lakeshore West

-Kipling Subway station

-Eglinton West LRT

-Airport.

-Maybe a stop at IKEA

The only LRT would need to be used would be because of most likely tight spaces on the hydro ROW.

I won't comment about NIMBY's in Toronto...

 

[jcam]

I wouldn't be surprised that Metrolinx sells the yard to TTC for a new Line 2 yard to accomodate TR trainsets.

 

[reaperexpress]

The Canpa sub could allow a peak-period commuter service from Lakeshore West to Summerhill via Dupont if we move forward with the Midtown line. The route would help relieve peak-period train congestion at Union Station and also make transit more attractive for suburb-to-suburb commutes.

Highlighted in yellow here:

As I have demonstrated before (here and here), there is plenty of room to add midtown GO service without diverting CP trains.

 

[TOareaFan]

 

[crs1026]

The Canpa sub could allow a peak-period commuter service from Lakeshore West to Summerhill via Dupont if we move forward with the Midtown line. The route would help relieve peak-period train congestion at Union Station and also make transit more attractive for suburb-to-suburb commutes.

As I have demonstrated before (here and here), there is plenty of room to add midtown GO service without diverting CP trains.

Enabling a Canpa-Kipling-Dupont-Yonge-Don Mills - McCowan(ish)- Pickering-Oshawa routing will be praised as farsighted in 30 years, but may not be critical until then. One question would be - how long will it be before TTC's Line 2 reaches the same saturation level as we are seeing on Line 1?

The issue with CP freight may be more a matter of Net Present Value than theoretical operational feasibility. Why would we want the headache of negotiating with CP, paying for the track rearrangements that would be needed, dealing with the operational realities and CP's need to extract a profit, etc when we could just build a bypass and buy the line outright? Over the long term the cost of doing that might not be such a big deal.

PS - I just got home from a shopping trip at the Junction, where I happened on a CP oil train that was adding a locomotive (the smallest one CP could find) so it could make the crawl up the Don Valley to Agincourt. Your analysis assumes a 'best case' for CP operating practices that does not match the reality of their current management style. I'm a bit leery - what is possible and what is prudent are different things.

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

I finally got around to doing my end-of-2015 Canadian Commuter Rail Summary.

The notable developments in 2015 were:
- Introduction of Union Pearson Express
- Opening of West Harbour GO Station, and
- Introduction of mid-day service on the GO Kitchener line.

Nothing notable happened in any other Canadian commuter rail systems.

Canadian Commuter Rail Summary 2015:
Improvements since last year are highlighted in light green, and regressions are highlighted in red. Web-based version is here.

The UP Express tops every frequency category except the peak direction, where it falls in the mid-range, behind many GO lines but still ahead of any lines in other systems. It ranks fifth in end-to-end average speed behind the Lakeshore East line, Barrie line, West Coast Express and Lakeshore West line. Meanwhile the ~2200 riders per day we were seeing in 2015 made it by far the lowest ridership line in the country. More recent 2016 figures in the 6500 range indicate that it may have overtaken the AMT Candiac line, but I don't have any recent AMT figures to be sure.

Lakeshore line schedule improvements push it even further ahead of every other line in the country, with up to 8 trains per hour in the peak direction and up to 4 trains per hour counter-peak. However the Milton line is still operates the most frequent single service pattern, with 6 local trains per hour.

The AMT Deux Montagnes line continues to be the most frequent line outside the GTA, but it still trails the Lakeshore line by a long way. Peak-direction service frequency trails just about every GO line and off-peak headways are simply disappointing. Service is only hourly mid-day and there are service gaps as long as three hours on Saturday, and five hours on Sunday. You'd really expect better from a short urban line running single-level EMUs.

Almost every GO Transit line is slower than a year ago. GO has been lengthening schedules for a while now, presumably in an effort to improve punctuality. Typically lines gained about two minutes, except for the Stouffville line which gained 5 minutes due to the addition of Danforth Station. Only the Kitchener line actually saw an improvement, which was thanks to the Georgetown South Project wrapping up and lifting some speed restrictions. I assume that the Richmond Hill line is also slower than a year ago, but I can't find last year's schedule.