GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

As for platform safety/crowding....its simple, just keep people in the concourse until you are ready to board the train....treat it like a holding/coralling area and only allow people into the starewells and up to the platform once the train is in place and ready to accept passengers.....Via does this all the time.

I'm not sure that this is any safer or wiser in a peak crowd situation....those stairs aren't all that wide, and with so many sets there will be some sort of breakdown. But maybe I'm biased.....I have been on so many platforms in Europe that have no access control, that even at quiet times the "Wait in Concourse" business on both VIA and GO frustrates the heck out of me.

The safest option is - load 'em up and GO, next train is right behind this one.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

Or they could continue to run trains every 15 minutes after big events.

sure...at the expense of running trains on other lines.

What a simpler world it is for GO if all of those pesky people who don't live by the lake could just go away and let them serve their real customers.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

it ignores that 27 years ago when SkyDome opened we were able to add trains on every line.....and now after spending billions of dollars on the corridors, we are unable to add any trains on the non-Lakeshore lines.

The thing is 27 years ago CN was running the show, which means that GO had access to a much larger pool of engineers and conductors. Now to keep operating costs down Bombardier maintains a very specific quota of railway qualified personal as per the agreement they have with GO/MX. But it leaves them short when it comes to instances when extra service might be required. It fact it's quite likely that the only reason that they were (and will) be able to run all these extra Lakeshore trains is because of crews signing up to do the work on their days off as overtime. It's highly doubtful that they would have been able to get the required number of people to run trains on all the other lines and if they use up the spare board to operate these extra's they run the risk of not having enough people available for regular service the next morning, which is still the priority.

 

[TOareaFan]

The thing is 27 years ago CN was running the show, which means that GO had access to a much larger pool of engineers and conductors. Now to keep operating costs down Bombardier maintains a very specific quota of railway qualified personal as per the agreement they have with GO/MX. But it leaves them short when it comes to instances when extra service might be required. It fact it's quite likely that the only reason that they were (and will) be able to run all these extra Lakeshore trains is because of crews signing up to do the work on their days off as overtime. It's highly doubtful that they would have been able to get the required number of people to run trains on all the other lines and if they use up the spare board to operate these extra's they run the risk of not having enough people available for regular service the next morning, which is still the priority.

So, if I understand, a management decision has led to a shortage of crews in overtime and that leads to another management decision to use the overtime crews they have to provide additional service to the lines that already have service and not on those lines that have no service? Or do the crews sign up for overtime saying "only if I am assigned to the lakeshore"?

 

[crs1026]

So, if I understand, a management decision has led to a shortage of crews in overtime and that leads to another management decision to use the overtime crews they have to provide additional service to the lines that already have service and not on those lines that have no service?

Most transit operators use overtime for non-recurring jobs, which can be cost-effective but puts them at the mercy of whatever plans the workforce has for its days off.

I have commented on this before, but I will belabour the point: GO's current shortage of crews was a totally foreseeable and avoidable situation that a competent organization would never allow to happen. We are seeing the impact of this on the Georgetown line, where throughout a multi-year construction project nobody thought to train enough crews for the added service. We still aren't seeing trains on nights and weekends.

It's a substantial elephant in the room, especially for an organization that has announced plans to greatly increase the number of runs per week. More Metrolinx smoke and mirrors.

- Paul

 

[gweed123]

The issue with running "Jays trains" on other lines is you'd need an inbound trip too. Right now it's only outbound after the event. Question: are any trains stored at Lincolnville and Mt. Pleasant/Georgetown over the weekends?

If so, what I'm thinking is run one inbound train from Mt. Pleasant and one from Lincolnville, and then run it back out in the PM, and store it out there overnight to be used in the morning rush.

This would decrease the crowding on Lakeshore, since people would have an alternative to driving to Clarkson or Guildwood.

 

[ShonTron]

Let's not forget the reason why GO got rid of CN crews - they were at times very unreliable, and days when multiple no-shows left GO scrambling. From what I hear, the crews employed by Bombardier are much more reliable for showing up for their shifts.

 

[TOareaFan]

Most transit operators use overtime for non-recurring jobs, which can be cost-effective but puts them at the mercy of whatever plans the workforce has for its days off.

I get that "extra" trains is overtime....but why they are only put on lines that already (in their normal schedule) have the ability to move significant % of a stadium's crowd away is the question.

I have commented on this before, but I will belabour the point: GO's current shortage of crews was a totally foreseeable and avoidable situation that a competent organization would never allow to happen. We are seeing the impact of this on the Georgetown line, where throughout a multi-year construction project nobody thought to train enough crews for the added service. We still aren't seeing trains on nights and weekends.

Yes, during the 5 year and $1.3B construction phase of the KW line there was plenty of time to hire/train crews....if, of course, the intention was to significantly expand the service.

 

[TOareaFan]

The issue with running "Jays trains" on other lines is you'd need an inbound trip too. Right now it's only outbound after the event. Question: are any trains stored at Lincolnville and Mt. Pleasant/Georgetown over the weekends?

I have no idea about Lincolnville but I believe there are 4 trains stored at GTown overnight and on weekends.....of course part of the issue may be that between GTown and Bramalea are tracks not owned by MLinx but, I guess, there probably is room to park at least one train short term at Bramalea.

As we have seen in the past, there is a way to run extra/special trains on the non-lakeshore lines.......all this scrambling to explain why they are not doing it for Jays games is really just masking the fact that they simply don't want to or didn't think to.

 

[gweed123]

I have no idea about Lincolnville but I believe there are 4 trains stored at GTown overnight and on weekends.....of course part of the issue may be that between GTown and Bramalea are tracks not owned by MLinx but, I guess, there probably is room to park at least one train short term at Bramalea.

As we have seen in the past, there is a way to run extra/special trains on the non-lakeshore lines.......all this scrambling to explain why they are not doing it for Jays games is really just masking the fact that they simply don't want to or didn't think to.

Assuming they can get track space for between Georgetown and Bramalea then, there shouldn't be much issue with running at least 1 return "Game Day" train. Run it in, store it at Bathurst, run it back out again after the game.

They could also do Barrie, since they own that entire corridor.

 

[crs1026]

The issue with running "Jays trains" on other lines is you'd need an inbound trip too. Right now it's only outbound after the event. Question: are any trains stored at Lincolnville and Mt. Pleasant/Georgetown over the weekends?
If so, what I'm thinking is run one inbound train from Mt. Pleasant and one from Lincolnville, and then run it back out in the PM, and store it out there overnight to be used in the morning rush.
This would decrease the crowding on Lakeshore, since people would have an alternative to driving to Clarkson or Guildwood.

The answer is yes, there are trains stored out there. For weekend games it's a no-brainer....already done for things like the Santa Claus parade. Just run the train in for the game, run it back out after, and park it.

For weekday evening games, the problem is you would be stealing a regular rush hour train (there are no spare trains sitting around at that hour) and doubling it back into the city as the 'inbound' run...which you can't do because it would run against the flow of the rush hour, and there isn't a track for that. The solution (as suggested earlier) is to just let people trickle downtown on the bus or whatever, and only run the outbound trip after the game. For that, you can use a trainset that is based at Willowbrook. Just have it deadhead home as an empty after its outbound run. The only problem with that is, its arrival time back at Willowbrook will be in the wee hours....which may lead to a very hefty payment to the crew, if they are an afternoons crew who are being paid OT to hang around for that final run. You might even run into the legal limit on hours of service. And, you'd mess up the servicing schedule for the train at Willowbrook, although that might be easy to adjust.

- Paul

 

[gweed123]

The answer is yes, there are trains stored out there. For weekend games it's a no-brainer....already done for things like the Santa Claus parade. Just run the train in for the game, run it back out after, and park it.

For weekday evening games, the problem is you would be stealing a regular rush hour train (there are no spare trains sitting around at that hour) and doubling it back into the city as the 'inbound' run...which you can't do because it would run against the flow of the rush hour, and there isn't a track for that. The solution (as suggested earlier) is to just let people trickle downtown on the bus or whatever, and only run the outbound trip after the game. For that, you can use a trainset that is based at Willowbrook. Just have it deadhead home as an empty after its outbound run. The only problem with that is, its arrival time back at Willowbrook will be in the wee hours....which may lead to a very hefty payment to the crew, if they are an afternoons crew who are being paid OT to hang around for that final run. You might even run into the legal limit on hours of service. And, you'd mess up the servicing schedule for the train at Willowbrook, although that might be easy to adjust.

- Paul

Yes, I was thinking primarily for weekend games that this would be in effect. For weekday games, you have a lot of people who are already in or near downtown, so the inbound trip isn't as essential. Also, weekend games tend to have more families with kids, so a train is definitely preferable to a bus, for a whole bunch of reasons.

 

[Jonny5]

Yes, I was thinking primarily for weekend games that this would be in effect. For weekday games, you have a lot of people who are already in or near downtown, so the inbound trip isn't as essential. Also, weekend games tend to have more families with kids, so a train is definitely preferable to a bus, for a whole bunch of reasons.

The 2012 home opener was 16 innings. What if the game goes on that long? Or longer? Will they be able to keep the tracks available for all trips back on all lines, or is there a point in the night where CN/CP would tell them they cannot go back until the morning?

 

[TOareaFan]

The 2012 home opener was 16 innings. What if the game goes on that long? Or longer? Will they be able to keep the tracks available for all trips back on all lines, or is there a point in the night where CN/CP would tell them they cannot go back until the morning?

less than 10% of all MLB games go to extra innings......even fewer (far fewer) go beyond a couple of extra innings.

 

[crs1026]

The 2012 home opener was 16 innings. What if the game goes on that long? Or longer? Will they be able to keep the tracks available for all trips back on all lines, or is there a point in the night where CN/CP would tell them they cannot go back until the morning?

Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon for the RTC office to be monitoring the game on the radio and reporting by radio. As do the police and other services involved in crowd control. For all but the longest delays, things like maintenance windows would be set up with contingencies for this. The bigger problem would be the curfew for the train crews.....they must stop working after so many hours. If they are working the Jays special as an extension of their regular day, this could bite.

All of this only became an issue once the Jays started winning and regular attendance jumped from 15,000 or so to 40,000+. If you planned out the service for the whole season, and the Jays hit a slump.....you'd have empty trains. Some ad hoc flex in the plan may be sensible.

- Paul