GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[DonValleyRainbow]

Unless I missed the point of your first post (quite possible) it would not be 11 minutes saved...it would be 11 more minutes spent waiting for the train at Mt Pleasant (on top of the 15 you already waited).

Unless you scheduled said bus to depart 11 minutes later from Guelph.

 

[TOareaFan]

GO has announced that for every Jay home game in April they will add extra trains on the Lakeshore line(s).

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/go-transi...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Aside from the fact that those lines don't need extra trains after Jays games (there is a train on each every 1/2 hour all day anyway) it ignores that 27 years ago when SkyDome opened we were able to add trains on every line.....and now after spending billions of dollars on the corridors, we are unable to add any trains on the non-Lakeshore lines.

 

[Jonny5]

GO has announced that for every Jay home game in April they will add extra trains on the Lakeshore line(s).

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/go-transi...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Aside from the fact that those lines don't need extra trains after Jays games (there is a train on each every 1/2 hour all day anyway) it ignores that 27 years ago when SkyDome opened we were able to add trains on every line.....and now after spending billions of dollars on the corridors, we are unable to add any trains on the non-Lakeshore lines.

They could not handle the surge load at the end of the game on Friday night and the platform became dangerously crowded. The first train out was crush loaded with people standing on both levels. Even the 11:43 train departed with some cars crush loaded. While that was in part due to uneven arrivals from the west, it was not at all an ideal or safe situation. The extra train is required.

 

[nfitz]

Aside from the fact that those lines don't need extra trains after Jays games (there is a train on each every 1/2 hour all day anyway) ...

From the crowding I saw at Union last October, I'm not sure how you can say the every 1/2-hour service is sufficient.

 

[TOareaFan]

From the crowding I saw at Union last October, I'm not sure how you can say the every 1/2-hour service is sufficient.

within an hour of the end of a game....the Lakeshore lines can move ~20% of a sellout crowd at Roger's Centre on their way home (2 trains X 2 directions X ~2,000/train).....subway can move a decent portion....other GO lines virtually nothing.

 

[dowlingm]

While extra trains on LSE/W is nice, we'll really know GO is getting serious about Jays games when weekend trains appear on the Stouffville line. You know, the one that John Tory and Eric Miller want to run as a rapid transit system and which at present doesn't see a train even when the DVP is closed for scheduled maintenance.

 

[nfitz]

within an hour of the end of a game....the Lakeshore lines can move ~20% of a sellout crowd at Roger's Centre on their way home (2 trains X 2 directions X ~2,000/train).....subway can move a decent portion....other GO lines virtually nothing.

Those Union platforms have seemed overcrowded to me, 15 minutes after the previous train has left. When you've been at Union after a sold-out Blue Jays game, what have you seen? Especially when there are other events going on as well.

 

[TOareaFan]

Those Union platforms have seemed overcrowded to me, 15 minutes after the previous train has left. When you've been at Union after a sold-out Blue Jays game, what have you seen? Especially when there are other events going on as well.

I have seen crowding....just as I have seen crowding in every city where I use transit to and from events. Whether it is the tiny subway platforms at Cessnock/Ibrox subway stations...whether it is the LRT platforms at stadium station in Seattle...whether it is the bus stops across the street from the United Center...whether it is the GO platforms in Toronto at the Ex or Union...etc etc etc....there is crowding and the right way to deal with that is appropriate crowd management/control.

That said, like I pointed out, the two lines we talk about have, within 1 hour of the end of the event, the ability to move ~20% of a sold out Rogers Centre.......the other 5 GO Train lines in total have the ability to move 0%.....

....it the goal is to move more people away from the stadium via public transit then it is clear where capacity should be added.

If the goal is to move the same number of people away but more comfortably then sure, add unlimited number of trains to the Lakeshore lines.

 

[nfitz]

I've been on the LRT platform a few times at Stadium station in Seattle at an event at Century Link or QWest Field. It's never been worse than rush-hour at Westlake, and I'd have never would have called it crushed. or overcrowded.

I see no reason to add extra trains; your numbers assume that the trains are carrying no one else. I've been on trains arriving at Union after a Jays game, which were already standing-room only, and few got off at Union.

I see nothing wrong with them adding extra service. Though it's a good point that perhaps they should run on the other lines as well. How bad is the crowding at the GO Bus terminal - I haven't been there after a game? How full were the trains on the other routes when they used to run them after a game?

 

[TOareaFan]

I've been on the LRT platform a few times at Stadium station in Seattle at an event at Century Link or QWest Field. It's never been worse than rush-hour at Westlake, and I'd have never would have called it crushed. or overcrowded.

I see no reason to add extra trains; your numbers assume that the trains are carrying no one else. I've been on trains arriving at Union after a Jays game, which were already standing-room only, and few got off at Union.

I see nothing wrong with them adding extra service. Though it's a good point that perhaps they should run on the other lines as well. How bad is the crowding at the GO Bus terminal - I haven't been there after a game? How full were the trains on the other routes when they used to run them after a game?

My times in Seattle were not as bad as the others...but there are/were crowds (and mine have been after Sounders matches so only 1/2 of the stadium capacity...assume it is worse after Seahawk games)...but the point is crowding and crowd management are event issues around the world to varying extent.

I would guess that you might even alleviate some of that Lakeshore crowding with trains on the other lines because people who live no where near the Lakeshore will not drive to Lakeshore stations just to use the train....so they will be on other platforms after the game.

As for the buses at Union....I stopped trying to take buses home after games a couple of winters ago.....when I could not get on the bus...sure they called in a 2nd bus that came 5 minutes later as an extra and then a 3rd 5 minutes after that.....as with all observational evidence I cannot vouch for that being the "norm"....but enough for me to always drive to work on dates when I have tickets to events/games...which is the opposite decision to what should be encouraged.....that experience I had was after a Raptor game...and not a 40k+ Jay game.

I have absolutely no issue with extra trains on Lakeshore....but it should come after they have added, I would est....2 trains on each of the other lines....not before.

It stuns me that 27 years ago we had a train waiting at Union on all GO lines that left (IIRC) 30 minutes after the last pitch.....with the money we have spent on all the lines since then....with the corridors more in public hands than they have ever been.....we are unable to do that today?

EDIT

P.S....if you really wanna see crowding...go to any match at Red Bull arena that has more than 20k (stadium holds 27k) and try to take the train back into NY.

 

[crs1026]

For weekend games, there's no argument....there should be trains for every game on every route. (Heaven forbid that we just run them year round, and people find them useful for all the other things that go on downtown in the afternoons!).

Night games are a little different, in that until you have 2-way capability it will be glaringly obvious that there is no inbound service. Lots of people drive to Lakeshore GO stations for this reason....happily, the parking lots are clearing out late in the day so they park for the game and drive home from there.

I bet you could fill an outbound post-game train on each line even so....people will still trickle downtown during late afternoon on bus, etc.

- Paul

PS - the biggest value of the added Lakeshore trains is the ability to move the "next train" into the depot right after the last one leaves. There's half a hope of the platform still being mostly empty, hence the move is much safer. If you wait for the next regular train to arrive a half hour later, the platform is packed.

 

[TOareaFan]

For weekend games, there's no argument....there should be trains for every game on every route. (Heaven forbid that we just run them year round, and people find them useful for all the other things that go on downtown in the afternoons!).

Night games are a little different, in that until you have 2-way capability it will be glaringly obvious that there is no inbound service. Lots of people drive to Lakeshore GO stations for this reason....happily, the parking lots are clearing out late in the day so they park for the game and drive home from there.

I bet you could fill an outbound post-game train on each line even so....people will still trickle downtown during late afternoon on bus, etc.

- Paul

PS - the biggest value of the added Lakeshore trains is the ability to move the "next train" into the depot right after the last one leaves. There's half a hope of the platform still being mostly empty, hence the move is much safer. If you wait for the next regular train to arrive a half hour later, the platform is packed.

Sure, the lack of inbound service will limit the number of people using the other lines....but not eliminate it......there are people who will use the bus service on the other lines to come in, on the KW line there are people who will use the mid afternoon trains inbound that get them there a bit early and, there will be (just as on lakeshore) people who are already downtown for work who would like the train home.

No one (certainly not me) is suggesting that there as many people who would take the train on the other lines as there are on Lakeshore line(s).....but there are people and they are being treated like 2nd class customers/taxpayers at present.

As for platform safety/crowding....its simple, just keep people in the concourse until you are ready to board the train....treat it like a holding/coralling area and only allow people into the starewells and up to the platform once the train is in place and ready to accept passengers.....Via does this all the time.

 

[nfitz]

treat it like a holding/coralling area and only allow people into the starewells and up to the platform once the train is in place and ready to accept passengers.....Via does this all the time.

VIA doesn't have only 4 minutes do to get everyone off, and then back on again.

 

[TOareaFan]

VIA doesn't have only 4 minutes do to get everyone off, and then back on again.

no they don't, so those trains (like all of the trains leaving the EX after TFC games) will leave a few minutes late....but if platform safety is the issue that may be the cost.

 

[nfitz]

Or they could continue to run trains every 15 minutes after big events.