GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[ShonTron]

I am hearing that you don't need much space because hardly anyone will use the station, yet it will somehow kick off a transformation of Grimsby in to an urban planning utopia. This isn't a convenient place to get to AT ALL. Convenient is right off the highway at Casablanca. Inconvenient is not close to highway access in the clogged awkwardly laid out centre part of the town. Put the damn thing beside the highway which is where everyone can drive to in 10 minutes. Everyone talks about co-locating stations with retail, well guess what is right there at the Casablanca exit. This isn't the place to blow cash on an urban planning fantasy. Just get them on the train.

Casablanca Blvd isn't convenient if you happen to live in Grimsby. By your logic, the Brampton GO Station should be moved to somewhere by Highway 410 as Downtown Brampton is too congested, and there's not enough parking.

Centennial Station will be right next to a QEW interchange, so would an infill Fifty Road Station.

I'd have two stations to serve the area: one at Fifty Road, and one in Downtown Grimsby. It would cost a bit more than having one station at Casablanca, but you'd be able to serve urban commuters and car-dependent people that way.

 

[innsertnamehere]

My favourite VIA station is probably Washago.. I've driven by it many, many times, thinking it was abandoned. Turns out the Canadian actually stops at it.. Its an overgrown platform with a half collapsed hut for waiting in the winter.


This is an actual, active rail station. Its absolutely embarrassing.

 

[nfitz]

You should have seen some of the unstaffed (but unlocked) stations on the VIA north-short Montreal-Quebec City. Arrived ... had to guess which way to wade through the snow in the dark, to hit the nearest road.

 

[crs1026]

Casablanca is also where the current bus station is.

- Paul

 

[Komiksulo]

A thought... Might the eventual route of the GO Niagara line go from Niagara Falls to... Kitchener? That would make it the first GO-train line that does not go through Union.

GO could start seeding the Hamilton-Kitchener route with buses. They could come in to West Harbour to meet the Niagara and Union trains. This might also be a good place for buses from Brantford to arrive.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

A thought... Might the eventual route of the GO Niagara line go from Niagara Falls to... Kitchener? That would make it the first GO-train line that does not go through Union.

GO could start seeding the Hamilton-Kitchener route with buses. They could come in to West Harbour to meet the Niagara and Union trains. This might also be a good place for buses from Brantford to arrive.

But what is the rationale for a Kitchener-Niagara Falls line, in terms of ridership?

AoD

 

[nfitz]

A thought... Might the eventual route of the GO Niagara line go from Niagara Falls to... Kitchener? That would make it the first GO-train line that does not go through Union.

Realistically ... no. What was the travel time on the old Hamilton service north?

But what is the rationale for a Kitchener-Niagara Falls line, in terms of ridership?

Well, it is one of the few routes left in SW Ontario that still runs a profitable regular bus service.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, it is one of the few routes left in SW Ontario that still runs a profitable regular bus service.

Perhaps, but the case for rail will have to be demonstrated.

AoD

 

[ShonTron]

A thought... Might the eventual route of the GO Niagara line go from Niagara Falls to... Kitchener? That would make it the first GO-train line that does not go through Union.

GO could start seeding the Hamilton-Kitchener route with buses. They could come in to West Harbour to meet the Niagara and Union trains. This might also be a good place for buses from Brantford to arrive.

Three problems with that idea:

1. There is no direct rail line between Hamilton and Kitchener; really, there never was. The closest would have been the CN Fergus Sub, which ran from Lynden Junction to Galt and Preston (and connecting to the CP-controlled Grand River Railway at Preston). The CN Fergus Sub has been gone between Lynden and Galt for about thirty years. Building a new rail line to connect Hamilton and Kitchener would cost $ billions - even talk about a new freeway, going on for 40-50 years, hasn't resulted in anything. There is a line connecting Hamilton and Guelph, but this is CP's line (and the City of Guelph's), and is not through at Guelph Junction (west of Milton). It would cost at least $1B to upgrade this line, and you're not directly connecting to KW.

Until 1955, a determined rail passenger could take a train from Hamilton CN station to Galt or Preston, and transfer to the GRR, or take a TH&B train to Brantford and walk over to the LE&N Station and take an electric train to Kitchener via the LE&N/GRR service. Most passengers would have taken the HSR's Canada Coach Lines bus though, which offered a more frequent and faster direct service to Kitchener.

2. Coach Canada (operating as Megabus) has the franchise for the route between Hamilton and Kitchener. So GO really can't serve this market unless it takes it over from CC. Coach Canada (and later AboutTown Northlink) operated a bus between Hamilton and Guelph - GO can (and should) start one here, GO customers could transfer at Aberfoyle.

3. Ridership isn't that high. The Hamilton-KW-Guelph triangle is an important, underserved, market, but a solid bus system is the answer here.

 

[ShonTron]

Realistically ... no. What was the travel time on the old Hamilton service north?

Well, it is one of the few routes left in SW Ontario that still runs a profitable regular bus service.

Coach Canada abandoned the Niagara-St. Catharines-Hamilton route in 2014, claiming that GO forced it out. The Coach Canada route served Downtown St. Catharines, Beamsville and Downtown Grimsby, unlike GO's route. It used to connect to the Hamilton-Cambridge-Kitchener route at Downtown Hamilton.

The Toronto-Niagara coach route remains profitable, though.

 

[nfitz]

Perhaps, but the case for rail will have to be demonstrated.

Agreed. And the bus service will only become more competive as they finish converting Highway 6 into an expressway from 403 to 401, and along the Hanlon - not to mention the new additional capacity along the widened 401 and even Highway 7 from Guelph to Kitchener.

 

[nfitz]

Three problems with that idea:

1. There is no direct rail line between Hamilton and Kitchener; really, there never was. The closest would have been the CN Fergus Sub, which ran from Lynden Junction to Galt and Preston (and connecting to the CP-controlled Grand River Railway at Preston). The CN Fergus Sub has been gone between Lynden and Galt for about thirty years. Building a new rail line to connect Hamilton and Kitchener would cost $ billions - even talk about a new freeway, going on for 40-50 years, hasn't resulted in anything. There is a line connecting Hamilton and Guelph, but this is CP's line (and the City of Guelph's), and is not through at Guelph Junction (west of Milton). It would cost at least $1B to upgrade this line, and you're not directly connecting to KW.

In the 1950 CN timetable, that Galt train went through to Guelph (in 2 hours 10 minutes). One run a day, leaving Hamilton before 6 AM. At Guelph you would wait an hour before the 9 AMish train to Kitchener and Stratford



Another option was the Hamilton to Barrie train, which left at 7:15 and took 1 hour 25 minutes to Georgetown (through Milton); arriving with 10 minutes to spare to catch the Georgetown to Guelph to Kitchener train that passes through Guelph at 9ish.



The CP service from Hamilton to Galt ... one train a day (in 1950) leaving 8:20 from Hamilton, arrives Galt until 9:55 AM. And then there's frequent service to Kitchener.


I suspect that one took whichever was most convenient ... but looks like today's bus service is far superior to rail in 1950, with 4 departures a day, and only a 90-minute ride from Kitchener to Hamilton GO (stopping at Galt and McMaster) for $10:

 

[1overcosc]

2. Coach Canada (operating as Megabus) has the franchise for the route between Hamilton and Kitchener. So GO really can't serve this market unless it takes it over from CC. Coach Canada (and later AboutTown Northlink) operated a bus between Hamilton and Guelph - GO can (and should) start one here, GO customers could transfer at Aberfoyle.

Nope. GO is exempt from the franchise rules and it can operate buses wherever it wants.

 

[dunkalunk]

GO could start seeding the Hamilton-Kitchener route with buses. They could come in to West Harbour to meet the Niagara and Union trains. This might also be a good place for buses from Brantford to arrive.

I'd have the route serve UW, Downtown Kitchener, Sportsworld, Cambridge Smartcentre, Aberfoyle, Aldershot, and then West Harbour GO. Aldershot would make the connect to all-day 2-way GO. After Coach Canada abandons their Kitchener-Hamilton route due to competition, you can then run an express variant of the Highway 6 GO route and perhaps another GO route via Galt and McMaster via Highway 8.

 

[ShonTron]

I'd have the route serve UW, Downtown Kitchener, Sportsworld, Cambridge Smartcentre, Aberfoyle, Aldershot, and then West Harbour GO. Aldershot would make the connect to all-day 2-way GO. After Coach Canada abandons their Kitchener-Hamilton route due to competition, you can then run an express variant of the Highway 6 GO route and perhaps another GO route via Galt and McMaster via Highway 8.

That could be a winner. Maybe just terminate the bus at Aldershot, where there's connecting GO buses for Downtown Hamilton and McMaster University.