GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[salsa]

http://www.citynews.ca/2015/11/23/slow-go-go-trains-delayed-cancelled-due-broken-switch/

 

[SaugeenJunction]

That's definitely good news then. Anybody in the know think that one or more of the current West Harbour trips will be shifted to Hamilton Centre instead, given that there will be a service boost to West Harbour and beyond (even out the increase in service I mean).

Im sorry... just to clarify, are we now talking about an imminent GO expansion to St. Catharines, as well as a big service increase to West Harbour? If this is in fact coming down the tubes it is going to be huge.

 

[nfitz]

Send the train back as a regular Lakeshore West train (to arrive at Union at either :10 or :40)? Not sure why it necessarily needs to be stored there after completing the trip.

The first trip doesn't arrive at West Harbour until 5:59 pm. Wouldn't be able to leave Union again until after 7 pm. Not sure how that helps.

 

[gweed123]

The first trip doesn't arrive at West Harbour until 5:59 pm. Wouldn't be able to leave Union again until after 7 pm. Not sure how that helps.

I'm saying it would be put into the regular Lakeshore West/East service. Shift the service slightly so that it becomes the 18:04 eastbound train out of Aldershot, only originating at Hamilton Centre. Basically, I'm saying that it could be the start of a counter-flow peak hour service into Hamilton.

 

[ShonTron]

Although there may be limited need for St.Catherines to Toronto trains, I do think there are a lot of commuters between SC and Hamilton that will take advantage of a new service.

If you read my post, without stations in Hamilton that are currently able to handle trains to/from St. Catharines, expansion to St. Catharines doesn't make much sense.

 

[nfitz]

I'm saying it would be put into the regular Lakeshore West/East service. Shift the service slightly so that it becomes the 18:04 eastbound train out of Aldershot, only originating at Hamilton Centre. Basically, I'm saying that it could be the start of a counter-flow peak hour service into Hamilton.

Not sure how that relates to extending the service to St. Kitts. Seems to me, that neither depend on the other; and not relevant to West Harbour at all.

 

[crs1026]

This doesn't mean Mount Pleasant won't happen. I hear rumblings that we will see more service there by spring.

The incremental labour to run to St Catherines may not consume all of the new graduates, so both may be doable.

I bet the St Kitts service will be very popular.

- Paul

 

[gweed123]

Not sure how that relates to extending the service to St. Kitts. Seems to me, that neither depend on the other; and not relevant to West Harbour at all.

It relates because West Harbour is going to be seeing a pretty decent increase in service, while Hamilton Centre is getting nothing. I'm asking if it would be possible to shift one or two of the trains that currently end at West Harbour to end at Hamilton Centre instead, so that both stations see a moderate increase in service as opposed to one receiving all of the increase. If the extra train or two that get re-routed to Hamilton centre need to be sent back out afterwards because of storage capacity there, then it can be discussed how that train can be slotted back into the regular LSW service pattern.

 

[mdrejhon]

It relates because West Harbour is going to be seeing a pretty decent increase in service, while Hamilton Centre is getting nothing. I'm asking if it would be possible to shift one or two of the trains that currently end at West Harbour to end at Hamilton Centre instead, so that both stations see a moderate increase in service as opposed to one receiving all of the increase. If the extra train or two that get re-routed to Hamilton centre need to be sent back out afterwards because of storage capacity there, then it can be discussed how that train can be slotted back into the regular LSW service pattern.

Both stations are expected to have increases in service.

In my researching relating to a special feature article on Hamilton GO service, the roles of the Downtown GO versus West Harbour GO is essentially still up for discussion.

Currently, the current 10 year plan is to make Hamilton Downtown GO become the all-day terminus:

However, this may not necessarily be final.

Even Metrolinx acknowledges that the roles of the two Hamilton GO stations may change in the future:

"CN owns the corridor west of Burlington and operates it as a main freight line, and CP owns the corridor into the Hamilton GO Centre; this will drive infrastructure requirements and the timing of electrification"​

and

"Additional work needed to determine the roles of the Hamilton GO Centre and the new James North station"​

(Quotes from Metrolinx).

Even if Hamilton Downtown GO increases -- West Harbour GO is destined to see large increases in service, due to stopping the Niagara GO trains (that already pass by), as well as Lewis Road GO facility (beyond West Harbour) which has 4 sidings and is supposed to be opening very soon, 2015-2016.

Lewis Road Facility in Stony Creek -- future overnight parking for West Harbour GO trains.

It's also possible it's a negotiating ploy with both CP and CN, to make sure that one of them lets Metrolinx begin to operate all-day trains, at a price that Metrolinx can bear.

That said, the West Harbour GO is the more 'natural' extension of the Lakeshore West line, and getting all-day service there makes more sense. The roles of the two GO stations could potentially change as the Hamilton LRT gets constructed, and provides a connection between the two GO stations.

These scenarios could play out:

First Step #1 (near-future, pre-LRT)
- Increases in commuter trains will occur at West Harbour GO in 2016+ (after Lewis opens)
- Existing weekday trains maintained at Hamilton Downtown GO
- Weekend trains stop at West Harbour GO (via Niagara seasonal weekend trains)

Second Step #2 (far-future, post-LRT)
- All-day trains at West Harbour GO instead (including Niagara trains)
- Peak trains at Hamilton Downtown GO

Alternate Second Step #2 (far-future post-LRT)
- All-day 60 minute trains at Hamilton Downtown GO
- Peak trains and Niagara Weekend Trains at West Harbour GO

 

[mpd618]

Any idea of what new bus service may be supported by the facilities being built at Clappison's Corners on Highway 6 near Hamilton, and on Shirley Ave in Kitchener?

 

[ShonTron]

If I had a dime for every time I saw St. Catharines misspelled...

 

[gweed123]

Thanks for the details mdrejhon! I suppose my main beef with West Harbour getting increases and Hamilton Centre getting none is that Hamilton Centre is already set up to be far better served from a local transit perspective. Pretty much every bus route goes into or passes right by the MacNab terminal, which is a very short walk from the GO station, and most N-S routes take James up and John down, both of which book-end the GO station.

If the goal is to get people to take transit to the GO station instead of driving, Hamilton Centre is miles ahead of West Harbour in that regard. I get that the A-Line LRT (or even the stub of it that may get built in Phase I) will increase access to West Harbour, but it will never be as well connected to the local transit network as Hamilton Centre is. It's just a shame that the bulk of the service increases for the foreseeable future (<10 years) are going to a car-centric station as opposed to a transit-centric one.

 

[crs1026]

Thanks for the details mdrejhon! I suppose my main beef with West Harbour getting increases and Hamilton Centre getting none is that Hamilton Centre is already set up to be far better served from a local transit perspective. Pretty much every bus route goes into or passes right by the MacNab terminal, which is a very short walk from the GO station, and most N-S routes take James up and John down, both of which book-end the GO station.

I forget whether any of the various studies and EA's put a price tag on looping the GO/VIA route to St Catharines up the Gage Ave industrial spur, so that Hunter Street served both routes. I suspect it would be relatively pricey - little things that add up, especially dealing with all the level crossings, connecting trackage etc. However, if one wanted to be very forward thinking, it would be money well spent in the longer term.

West Harbour only makes sense if you assume densification and development close to the station. That neighbourhood is fragile as it is. It's a necessary stop for service to Stoney Creek and beyond, but its location is an inconvenience to those heading to "downtown" Hamilton.

But hey, big European cities have multiple train stations. Maybe this is a sign that Hamilton is joining a bigger league.

- Paul

 

[ShonTron]

I forget whether any of the various studies and EA's put a price tag on looping the GO/VIA route to St Catharines up the Gage Ave industrial spur, so that Hunter Street served both routes. I suspect it would be relatively pricey - little things that add up, especially dealing with all the level crossings, connecting trackage etc. However, if one wanted to be very forward thinking, it would be money well spent in the longer term.

West Harbour only makes sense if you assume densification and development close to the station. That neighbourhood is fragile as it is. It's a necessary stop for service to Stoney Creek and beyond, but its location is an inconvenience to those heading to "downtown" Hamilton.

But hey, big European cities have multiple train stations. Maybe this is a sign that Hamilton is joining a bigger league.

- Paul

I liken Hamilton's situation to Baltimore's: two separate lines to Washington operate from two separate stations: Penn Station, which hosts Amtrak, as well as MARC's electrified commuter trains on the Penn Line (daily service), and Camden Station, adjacent to Camden Yards, which is more convenient to Downtown, but has only limited weekday diesel train service.

 

[mdrejhon]

I would imagine that the best case scenario for 2030-2040s (RER phase 2), is allday service to both stations.

2035:
60-minute diesel service to Hamilton Downtown GO
15-minute electrified RER service to West Harbour GO
"Niagara Express" trains make connections at West Harbour GO (acting as a hub).

And I might be dreaming, but maybe, just maybe:

2040*:
- Completion of $1bn+ tunnel under Welland canal
- Bi-parte agreement of on-board customs clearance for fast train zooms across U.S. borders.
- Amtrak Acela Express high speed trains stops at West Harbour GO

*More likely 2140