True, Long Branch works too. Either way, it's the same basic concept. And good to hear that there are additional examples. The new service may not benefit TFC-bound passengers, but anyone bound for Union and area should benefit.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
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True, Long Branch works too. Either way, it's the same basic concept. And good to hear that there are additional examples. The new service may not benefit TFC-bound passengers, but anyone bound for Union and area should benefit.
TOareaFan
Superstar
depending on schedules it might be very helpful to TFC supporters.....if there ever is weekend service it would be interesting to compare the time/convenience of fighting through that tunnel after a match to catch a train to Long Branch to then drive to Brampton compared with strolling onto an eastbound train to Union then connecting to a train to Brampton
smallspy
Senior Member
Trains are scheduled to take a bit less time outside of rush hours, due to station dwells being shorter. The 22 minutes that the train may be cut down to only 20 or so. And on top of that, there is the section of double-track from Kennedy to just south of Unionville which can be used to stage meets.
10 minutes is the minimum scheduled turnback at any location that a train changes ends. It's not "unusually low" - they do it all the time.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The 18 minute Kennedy-Unionville time I used was already the off-peak value (from the northbound 14:18 and 15:18 trains). The peak period travel time is 19 minutes.
If trains meet at the siding between Milliken and Unionville (which is quite short), then they wouldn't meet near Scarborough, they'd meet near Danforth.
The only examples I'm aware of where services turn back without coming into or going out of service are the Lakeshore Line base service and the UP Express. The Lakeshore line has 23 minutes in Oshawa and 40 minutes at Aldershot. UP has 8 minutes at Union and 17 minutes at Pearson. In the latter case, the long layover at Pearson (for the length of the line) is presumably to compensate for the short layover at Union, similar to what I suggested would be the case with Union and Unionville.
EDIT: Also there's that eastbound express to Pickering that arrives at 8:15 and departs westbound at 8:25, which is about the same terminal time we're talking about. The proposed schedule is definitely doable, but I think it would require a hefty stopover at Union to maintain reliability. I think it could make sense to interline Kitchener-Stouffville from an operational perspective (fewer turnbacks), but it probably wouldn't make much difference to passengers.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
Here's what I'd like to see for base GO bus service connecting to the hourly Kitchener service:
Dashed lines: <1 bus per hour
Thin lines: 1 bus per hour
Thick lines: >1 bus per hour.
Keep in mind that this is just the base service, other services would supplement during busier periods (like the 32 Brampton Trinity Commons - North York, 45 Streetsville - York U, 48E Bramalea - Guelph express, etc).
EDIT: I have no idea how York Mills and Yorkdale managed to be reversed.
Dashed lines: <1 bus per hour
Thin lines: 1 bus per hour
Thick lines: >1 bus per hour.
Keep in mind that this is just the base service, other services would supplement during busier periods (like the 32 Brampton Trinity Commons - North York, 45 Streetsville - York U, 48E Bramalea - Guelph express, etc).
EDIT: I have no idea how York Mills and Yorkdale managed to be reversed.
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DonValleyRainbow
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Sweet map, but please show some love for the 39. The trip from Toronto to Guelph is long enough, I wouldn't like to go through Milton and Meadowvale and have it take longer.
smallspy
Senior Member
Those trains are considered "shoulder peak" trains, and thus will be busier than the off-peak trains will be. They could shave a couple of minutes off of that time if they felt so inclined.
1.75 kilometers is "quite short"?
The long layovers at Pearson are done on purpose to ensure that there is a lot of capability to make up for time lost elsewhere. They would have had long layovers at Union too - which if you didn't notice, are less than 10 minutes - if they had two platforms on which they could layover on.
The Aldershot off-peak layovers are 10 minutes - there is only a single track for GO trains to turn back there. All scheduled trains running into and out of service at Union, or any other station, are scheduled for 10 minutes (although some of the ones at Union in the afternoon rush hours are scheduled for more) to pull into the station, change ends, perform their mandatory brake tests, and load/unload as necessary.
So yeah, they do it all of the time.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I confirm. Lakeshore trains reverse in just a mere ten minutes, and sometimes less than five minutes if it arrived late.
If I fell asleep (as a deafie), twice I find myself having to disembark an eastward train at Burlington and catching the next Lakeshore West back to Aldershot.
As a deaf guy, I've been locked on a final train three times -- and had to press the passenger assistance alarm to get off. Two on time. Worse was being on a deadheading train, and the staff was nice enough to let me off near Oakville. Took me three hours to get home. Ugh.
I now religiously enable my vibrate alarm on my phone to go beserk on me five mins prior to scheduled station arrival. Just in case I fall asleep on a late train and don't wake up before the train deadheads!!
We need electronic station announcement signs inside the trains during RER upgrades.
If I fell asleep (as a deafie), twice I find myself having to disembark an eastward train at Burlington and catching the next Lakeshore West back to Aldershot.
As a deaf guy, I've been locked on a final train three times -- and had to press the passenger assistance alarm to get off. Two on time. Worse was being on a deadheading train, and the staff was nice enough to let me off near Oakville. Took me three hours to get home. Ugh.
I now religiously enable my vibrate alarm on my phone to go beserk on me five mins prior to scheduled station arrival. Just in case I fall asleep on a late train and don't wake up before the train deadheads!!
We need electronic station announcement signs inside the trains during RER upgrades.
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Jonny5
Senior Member
They have the turnaround at Aldershot down to quite an exacting science. As the train arrives at the station, it stops just before the platform for a few seconds to let out a crew member at the spot where the locomotive will be when the train pulls all the way into the platform. After pulling in the crew member at what is now the end of the train does whatever has to be done to the mechanisms there, and then he walks up to the locomotive at the front to join the other engineer who is usually already well on the way to engaging the train to run in the opposite direction.
I have also often seen a fuel truck parked where the locomotive stops at Aldershot. Does it actually top up the train while on layover, or is it parked there for some other purpose?
crs1026
Superstar
The original Pickering - Oshawa schedule which lasted for roughly 25 years was based on a 10 minute turnaround at Oakville and 11 minutes at Pickering. For us old guys, the more recent longer layovers feel downright wasteful 
- Paul
- Paul
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Thanks! In my notes about the map I alluded to my thoughts about the 39. I suggest that for simplicity, it be renamed the 48E, given that it follows more or less the same route as the 48. It is not shown on this map because I wasn't sure there would be enough demand to warrant running both 48 and 48E at all times. If there is in fact enough demand, that would be great.
Okay.
Yes. 1.75 km at track speed (50 mph / 8o km/h) takes 1min 20sec. So if the trains are scheduled to meet in the centre of the siding, one of them being more than 40 seconds late would cause a delay to the other.
Yes, this is exactly what I've been saying.
Hmm, I thought they alternated between the north platform and the south platform. I could have sworn I saw multiple trains sitting there. But I'm sure you guys ride the line more than me so you'd have a much better idea than I.
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Jonny5
Senior Member
Aldershot has three platforms. The middle is an island with tracks to the north and south. The south platform has the stub track that ends there at the station. Trains turning back to Toronto always use that south track.
GO trains to/from Hamilton and VIA trains use tracks adjacent to the middle (island) platform. There are times two GO trains will be at the station at once, though fewer now since some trains that originated/terminated at Aldershot were moved to West Harbour.
The northernmost platform appears abandoned, save for emergencies, likely because it does not have service from a regular passenger elevator. For several years I have only seen freight trains on the north track.
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mdrejhon
Senior Member
Yep. They fuel up the train there during a 10 minute Aldershot layover! I've seen the train arrive, and then once in a while, almost pitstop-style, attach the hose as I board the train, ten minutes before it departs. Usually they take their merry time...
They don't have to do it every time, but they are able to rapidly pipe fuel the train in less than 5 minutes, enough fuel for a few Lakeshore bounce back-and-fourths. So the fuel truck only need to do it once every few Lakeshore E/W roundtrips.
It pumps something like an order of magnitude faster than an automobile gas pump.
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
That's only if the crew has two engineers. Otherwise we're hard pressed to get out of there in the given 10 mins especially when refueling. But in any case the transit times have been padded so much(its ridiculous) we can easily make up delays of several minutes within 2 or 3 stations.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I wonder how much the padding has increased since the GO guarantee that refunds passengers.