GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It's shocking that they are only looking into the possibility of using Presto as a generic payment system - they have been doing that with the Hong Kong Octopus system for more than a decade. Metrolinx notwithstanding, there is nothing cutting edge about it anymore.

AoD

 

[mdrejhon]

I just received what I feel is a more detailed-than-average response from Metrolinx's PR regarding, for inclusion into my upcoming researched article about adding an extra stop to the Niagara Seasonal. Keep tuned.

 

[dowlingm]

It's shocking that they are only looking into the possibility of using Presto as a generic payment system - they have been doing that with the Hong Kong Octopus system for more than a decade. Metrolinx notwithstanding, there is nothing cutting edge about it anymore.

AoD

Isn't the focus more on making payment cards into transit cards rather than the other way around these days?

 

[gweed123]

It's shocking that they are only looking into the possibility of using Presto as a generic payment system - they have been doing that with the Hong Kong Octopus system for more than a decade. Metrolinx notwithstanding, there is nothing cutting edge about it anymore.

AoD

IMO, the Presto Card (physical card) is already almost obsolete. There are very few people who don't carry around smartphones nowadays, and in another 2-3 years nearly all of those will come equipped with NFC (most do now, but people are still holding onto phones that don't). The future is creating a mobile app that would allow you to pay and tap using that app, either from your Presto ePurse or directly linked to a Credit Card. That way, for tourists all they'd have to do is download the app to their smartphone, and within that app they'd get helpful stuff like maps too.

PS: Sorry for the 2+ week absence, I was away on my honeymoon. Doing my best to catch up on forum threads and the like now, haha!

 

[TOareaFan]

. Coffee doesn't make enough money, you need to sell the high margin stuff like sandwiches and combo meals too. It's not clear to me how much interest that would generate.

Along with bottled water and soda fountain pop.....coffee is about as high a margin product that is retailed on a regular basis. Their other products don't offer anywhere near the margin that coffee does.....they drive people into the stores at different times and for different reasons...that is their value but they are out margined by a long shot by the basic coffee product.

that said, the biggest impediment to a Tim Hortons locating in GO stations is that most GO stations in the system are sparsely used except for a few hours a day Monday to Friday.......and during those high use times, no one who is not using the stations is going to make it their coffee shop of choice so you would have to get incredible market share out of those train riders to generate large volumes.....and during the rest of the days there is typically no where for patrons to park to access the coffee shop if they chose to.

 

[TOareaFan]

Isn't the focus more on making payment cards into transit cards rather than the other way around these days?

When Esso introduced its speedstick about 10 years or so ago they had similar dreams of getting other retailers to accept them for payment......Shell also had a quick pay key fob device at the time (forget what theirs was called).....other than their own "On the Run" stores this was a complete failure (could not even convince the Tims stores inside most of those on the runs to accept them) and Shell has ditched its fob device entirely.

chip cards and tap and go cards have totally removed the convenience advantage they tried to play on.

 

[rbt]

When Esso introduced its speedstick about 10 years or so ago they had similar dreams of getting other retailers to accept them for payment......Shell also had a quick pay key fob device at the time (forget what theirs was called).....other than their own "On the Run" stores this was a complete failure (could not even convince the Tims stores inside most of those on the runs to accept them) and Shell has ditched its fob device entirely.

chip cards and tap and go cards have totally removed the convenience advantage they tried to play on.

If Presto registered with Interac, then Presto will be accepted everywhere. In short, if Presto follows financial standards then they can work trivially with any bank and any pre-existing POS hardware.

 

[jcam]

PS: Sorry for the 2+ week absence, I was away on my honeymoon. Doing my best to catch up on forum threads and the like now, haha!

I just got back from 3+ weeks on my belated honeymoon too (that's what happens when you marry a teacher)...it's a lot of work catching up on all these threads.

 

[TOareaFan]

If Presto registered with Interac, then Presto will be accepted everywhere. In short, if Presto follows financial standards then they can work trivially with any bank and any pre-existing POS hardware.

what is the advantage to the customer though....that is the issue....there may be the odd person that would see an advantage to carrying just one card with them but that is not really most people's reality....and would the revenue generated by the few that would bother offset the costs of becoming part of the interac system (not trivial at all).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

When Esso introduced its speedstick about 10 years or so ago they had similar dreams of getting other retailers to accept them for payment......Shell also had a quick pay key fob device at the time (forget what theirs was called).....other than their own "On the Run" stores this was a complete failure (could not even convince the Tims stores inside most of those on the runs to accept them) and Shell has ditched its fob device entirely.

chip cards and tap and go cards have totally removed the convenience advantage they tried to play on.

Easy - you just make it a contractual requirement that all retail outlets at all stations must support the use of Presto payment, though like you and others have said, the convenience advantage isn't there anymore.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

Easy - you just make it a contractual requirement that all retail outlets at all stations must support the use of Presto payment.

AoD

So, this is the pitch to , say, Tims "we want to generate a lot of revenue from non fares...so that means we want to charge you a lot of rent to open stores within train stations....many of which see large amounts of people for 2 hours a day and that is it, but there won't be parking for non train customers and it is not clear how many of the train customers will actually stop in the station to get coffee as opposed to one of the several coffee shops they pass on the way there.....oh, and by the way, to get in on this great opportunity you have to go the trouble and expense of accepting another form of payment....one that is inevitably linked to a credit or debit card that you already accept anyway!"

I think it would be more likely that Tims would respond with "nah, why don't you scrap Presto and just accept the Tim Card on the train"

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So, this is the pitch to , say, Tims "we want to generate a lot of revenue from non fares...so that means we want to charge you a lot of rent to open stores within train stations....many of which see large amounts of people for 2 hours a day and that is it, but there won't be parking for non train customers and it is not clear how many of the train customers will actually stop in the station to get coffee as opposed to one of the several coffee shops they pass on the way there.....oh, and by the way, to get in on this great opportunity you have to go the trouble and expense of accepting another form of payment....one that is inevitably linked to a credit or debit card that you already accept anyway!"

I think it would be more likely that Tims would respond with "nah, why don't you scrap Presto and just accept the Tim Card on the train"

I doubt they'd say no to a good business opportunity (i.e. the prequisite condition) so long as the capital and the per transaction cost for them to adopt Presto isn't huge. That's the leverage Metrolinx got.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

I doubt they'd say no to a good business opportunity (i.e. the prequisite condition) so long as the capital and the per transaction cost for them to adopt Presto isn't huge. That's the leverage Metrolinx got.

AoD

I guess I don't think it is as good a business opportunity as some do.....i will note that the 3 non-union stations I use the most are Mt. Pleasant, Brampton and Bramalea. Bramalea has a coffee vendor (one of those Gateway on the GO places).....Brampton had one that closed.....and when Mt. Pleasant opened (despite a tender going out) they could not find someone to operate it).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I guess I don't think it is as good a business opportunity as some do.....i will note that the 3 non-union stations I use the most are Mt. Pleasant, Brampton and Bramalea. Bramalea has a coffee vendor (one of those Gateway on the GO places).....Brampton had one that closed.....and when Mt. Pleasant opened (despite a tender going out) they could not find someone to operate it).

Obviously not all the stations have the same potential at this point in time.

AoD

 

[rbt]

what is the advantage to the customer though....that is the issue....there may be the odd person that would see an advantage to carrying just one card with them but that is not really most people's reality....and would the revenue generated by the few that would bother offset the costs of becoming part of the interac system (not trivial at all).

I don't know what the advantage is. I'm not sure what the advantage of Metrolinx having a physical card at all is; but they did it anyway, threw out that result, and did it again (rev 2). The Presto backend has genuine usefulness but I think the customer facing portion was handled in a very late '90's manner.

London seems to be heading toward a sane setup. Metrolinx could have started with that design and saved a few hundred million on their implementation.