GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[mdrejhon]

Essentially, you have two options: 1) Find some space to build around CP on the same corridor, or 2) Find some space for CP to relocate to a new corridor. Both are daunting challenges, and it will take a lot of money and negotiations to see either of them through. I understand Metrolinx's hesitation, even if it is a major ridership corridor, there's just lower hanging fruit in the face of those options.

The Milton line is the CP mainline through Toronto, so a very daunting problem to solve. GO has been able to purchase most of the rail corridor it runs over, with a very clear standout exception of the Milton line due to it being CP's crown jewel.

This is one of the reasons I thought that a proposed new Eglinton GO corridor *might* make sense -- one that goes to Airport Corporate (phase 1 'SmartTrack' section), then Mississauga Square One (phase 2), and then connects to the Milton line at Erindale (phase 3). But a brand new GO corridor would be incredibly expensive, as that will have to be mostly underground.

 

[dowlingm]

It will take a decades to get to get most of the system electrified and it will not be all end to end.

Not many contractors in NA who can do this work in the first place. The NEC line between Boston-Washington is being upgraded and San Francisco is about to covert their rail system to electrification. Then California is about to start building their HSR system. Manpower going to be short. Then there is the cost of doing it.

but according to the clean train people it only takes the will to want it instead of petty logistical considerations...

 

[dowlingm]

The Milton line is the CP mainline through Toronto, so a very daunting problem to solve. GO has been able to purchase most of the rail corridor it runs over, with a very clear standout exception of the Milton line due to it being CP's crown jewel.

This is one of the reasons I thought that a proposed new Eglinton GO corridor *might* make sense -- one that goes to Airport Corporate (phase 1 'SmartTrack' section), then Mississauga Square One (phase 2), and then connects to the Milton line at Erindale (phase 3). But a brand new GO corridor would be incredibly expensive, as that will have to be mostly underground.

don't sweat this stuff. Her Honour's gonna clear out CP:
http://www.mississaugalife.ca/2014/09/your-next-mayor/

The most efficient way to go all-day two-way is to negotiate the freight traffic off the CP southern line, which is the same line that carried the ill-fated Lac Megantic disaster train through Mississauga!

All-day two-way frequent GO is more efficient than building another line, and Cooksville access would lead to more re-development there. The Meadowvale business centre and airport are lacking, and we need better bus services too.

 

[reaperexpress]

It's the same ridership they reported last summer - http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0140905_BoardMtg_Regional_Express_Rail_EN.pdf - when there was only 16 trips per weekday rather than 18.

Yes, very impressive. In reality, they should be prioritizing this line for full-day service first - not Lakeshore, Georgetown, or Stouffville. But they seem to want to not deal with CP too quickly.

The Milton line definitely has impressive peak-hour peak-direction park-and-ride demand, but that does not necessarily translate to strong off-peak demand.

There are a couple reasons that Lakeshore and Kitchener are more promising for off-peak ridership potential.

1. Station Access
The Milton line stations have little around them and relatively weak transit connections. The current ridership is fueled almost exclusively by people driving to the station, which is not an economically sustainable way of accommodating ridership growth.

2. Trip Generators
As far as the GO line is concerned, Mississauga is a bedroom community for Toronto (obviously this is not generally the case, but the city's employment is not very accessible from the rail line). This bodes well for peak-hour ridership, but off-peak ridership is limited by the fact that everyone is going to and from Union, not anywhere else. In contrast, the Lakeshore and Kitchener lines include stations that are desinations in their own rights, such as Kitchener, Guelph, Brampton, Hamilton and to some extent, Pickering.

 

[robmausser]

The Milton line is the CP mainline through Toronto, so a very daunting problem to solve. GO has been able to purchase most of the rail corridor it runs over, with a very clear standout exception of the Milton line due to it being CP's crown jewel.

This is one of the reasons I thought that a proposed new Eglinton GO corridor *might* make sense -- one that goes to Airport Corporate (phase 1 'SmartTrack' section), then Mississauga Square One (phase 2), and then connects to the Milton line at Erindale (phase 3). But a brand new GO corridor would be incredibly expensive, as that will have to be mostly underground.

I believe that this isn't even necessary, drum118 can correct me but I believe there is JUST barely enough space in the CP corridor for Metrolinx to add 2 of their own tracks beside the CP mainline ones, much like they did for the Pickering -> Oshawa extension in the 70's.

Some bridges and other utilities will have to be rebuilt but practically speaking its possible to squeeze 2 GO tracks in that corridor to allow for 2 way all day service.

Which would be a lot cheaper than tunnelling under Eglinton.

However it still stands that adding 2 tracks in a CPR corridor and rebuilding bridges etc would still require negotiations with CPR and be a very lengthy and time consuming process, regardless.

 

[nfitz]

The Milton line definitely has impressive peak-hour peak-direction park-and-ride demand, but that does not necessarily translate to strong off-peak demand.

There are a couple reasons that Lakeshore and Kitchener are more promising for off-peak ridership potential.

1. Station Access
The Milton line stations have little around them and relatively weak transit connections. The current ridership is fueled almost exclusively by people driving to the station, which is not an economically sustainable way of accommodating ridership growth.

2. Trip Generators
As far as the GO line is concerned, Mississauga is a bedroom community for Toronto (obviously this is not generally the case, but the city's employment is not very accessible from the rail line). This bodes well for peak-hour ridership, but off-peak ridership is limited by the fact that everyone is going to and from Union, not anywhere else. In contrast, the Lakeshore and Kitchener lines include stations that are desinations in their own rights, such as Kitchener, Guelph, Brampton, Hamilton and to some extent, Pickering.

I disagree. Comparing to Lakeshore, is Meadowvale a worst trip generator than Clarkson? Is Cooksville worse than Port Credit?

If anything, Milton seems to be better off on this. And there's Metrolinx's proposed spur to Square One as well. The Kitchener line stations give me even more pause, particularly Etobicoke North, Malton, and Bramalea.

 

[wopchop]

I disagree. Comparing to Lakeshore, is Meadowvale a worst trip generator than Clarkson? Is Cooksville worse than Port Credit?

If anything, Milton seems to be better off on this. And there's Metrolinx's proposed spur to Square One as well. The Kitchener line stations give me even more pause, particularly Etobicoke North, Malton, and Bramalea.

Yeah, sort of agree with you here. Malton, I think, has the most potential of those stations. It could potentially be connected to Pearson via People-mover at some point in the future.

Meadowvale is a station that could be a good trip generator in a all-day-two-way setup, better than most, but it currently suffers major last-mile issues. Clarkson also has this issue, despite being near large office parks, and having AD2W GO service. It could certainly be a good trip generator due to all the employment lands (Winston Churchill / Dundas is a huge cluster), but local connections to it are poor.

I certainly wouldn't describe most Lakeshore GO stations as "destinations in their own right".

 

[nfitz]

Meadowvale is a station that could be a good trip generator in a all-day-two-way setup, better than most, but it currently suffers major last-mile issues. Clarkson also has this issue, despite being near large office parks, and having AD2W GO service. It could certainly be a good trip generator due to all the employment lands (Winston Churchill / Dundas is a huge cluster), but local connections to it are poor.

I agree, though much of 905 suffers from last mile issues. Meadowvale does has an increasing amount of office space in walking distance from the station in the Argentia/Century area, and a lot of potential for densification. The challenge though is from the Mississauga/Derry area to the station, which remains a 20-minute walk (which is an improvement from the 30-minute walk it was before the walkway to Argentia opened).

 

[reaperexpress]

I disagree. Comparing to Lakeshore, is Meadowvale a worst trip generator than Clarkson? Is Cooksville worse than Port Credit?

If anything, Milton seems to be better off on this. And there's Metrolinx's proposed spur to Square One as well. The Kitchener line stations give me even more pause, particularly Etobicoke North, Malton, and Bramalea.

I never claimed that every station on these other lines had destinations, merely that there exist stations which have trip generators. I certainly agree regarding Etobicoke North and Malton, but Bramalea is actually quite an important station because it connects to the 407 bus service, and there is some Brampton Transit connectivity too.

In its current form stoping short of Hamilton, I'd agree that Lakeshore is quite similar to Milton in being highly Union-oriented. If it actually continued to Hamilton (the station I described as being a destination in its own right), we would see a more balanced loading profile.

When I'm talking about destinations around the station, I'm talking within a 10-minute walk.

With a spur to Square One, the Milton corridor would have a strong case for all-day service, thanks to the incredibly important bus terminal there.

 

[nfitz]

I never claimed that every station on these other lines had destinations, merely that there exist stations which have trip generators.

There's better trip generators in Mississauga on the Lakeshore line than Port Credit or Clarkson!?! I was trying to do apples to apples. Those are some of the busiest stations on the line!

 

[mdrejhon]

There's better trip generators in Mississauga on the Lakeshore line than Port Credit or Clarkson!?! I was trying to do apples to apples. Those are some of the busiest stations on the line!

Outgoing trips, yes.
Incoming trips, no.

 

[DKsan]

51 - Pickering Hwy 407 Service

As a result of a labour dispute at the University of Toronto, Scarborough Campus (UTSC), GO Buses will not be serving the UTSC bus loop, and temporary on-street stops will be provided. Passengers wishing to travel east, toward Pickering GO Station, will be able to board GO Buses at the TTC stop on the northwest corner of Ellesmere Rd. at Military Trail, and westbound passengers travelling toward Scarborough Town Centre and York University will be able to board GO Buses at the TTC stop on Military Trail, south of Ellesmere Rd., across the street from the UTSC bus loop, until further notice. We appreciate your patience as we work to keep your service operating as close to schedule as possible during this time.

 

[AHK]

Friday morning (February 27) while driving to Montreal, we saw two bi-level GO cars, in the new paint colours, on a CN train, heading towards Montreal.

If the cars were new, just out-shopped from the Bombardier Thunder Bay works, would they be heading to Montreal for final finishing / interiors? If so, would they not have gone via CP Rail? To get from Thunder Bay to Montreal via CN would involve some doubling back?

Had these two cars been previously refurbed (and repainted in the new colours) in Montreal, and being sent back to resolve deficiencies?

I thought the Montreal plant with the GO Transit refurbishment contract was served by CP and not CN?

Would anyone have any insight as to why the two cars would have been on the CN and not the CP line?

 

[TOareaFan]

Tess Kalinowski ✔ @TessKalinowski
Kitchener will be getting two more trains next year says @GOtransit pres Greg Percy. Will it be enough?

 

[innsertnamehere]

those are the 2016 trains going in from Kitchener that we have known about for a while.