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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

asher__jo said:
I'm really starting to think a light elevated metro line from Kipling to Square one following most of Milton rail corridor is a better solution.
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I don't. Having redundancy would make the politicos complacent and they'll think that implementing any kind of actual service on the Milton line is not necessary.

The less alternative options there are, the more pressure there will be to start work on expanding Milton. Also, this doesn't help anyone living along the western edges of the line.

In the meantime, they can start by improving what they have. With hourly frequencies on all branches of the 21 (except for, inexplicably, the Lisgar branch) for most of the day, and with the restoration of 15 minute service on LSW nowhere in sight, there is a lot of work for Metrolinx to do. Of course, declaring Milton a failed town and evacuating it as a government policy would be cheaper, too...
 
sixrings said:
Sorry Paul. Apparently everyone here is in agreement and maybe I just don’t understand the pros to be electrified other than the environment. As a hybrid car owner I appreciate the environment but are there other tangible benefits.

Also as a Milton line user I’m like a broken record thinking this line needs to be fixed asap and the benefits are clear. All day go train service.
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It's not either or.
 
Bojaxs said:
That's just self-defeating behaviour. If Richmond Hill had dedicated tracks and offered 2WAD service, you would still snub it because it's not electrified?

Point being, we're going to have to look at separating passenger from freight even after we electrify. So why not do it now before we electrify?

I'm of the opinion that if the GO trains are to be a proper, "subway style", regional service, then switching between trains at Union should be as quick as possible.

If you guys don't see the value in quick transferring at Union, and Metrolinx focusing on comparable service for all lines rather than electrification, then stop complaining about all the cars on the 401.

EDIT: And don't respond with "People should just move closer to the electrified lines". Do you know how expensive it is to live in Oakville? Or anywhere near the lake for that matter.
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1. The track geometry is horrid. I took the RHill line once a few months ago. Richmond Hill, despite seeming like a close-in suburb of Toronto, takes longer to get to Union than from 15km to the north in Aurora, as well as other seemingly remote suburbs like Georgetown. The thing just screeches along curves at 40kmph through the whole valley. My parents switched from Richmond Hill to Maple despite living a fair bit closer to the former about a decade ago, then moved to Aurora with not much time lost in their day. Conceivably Richmond Hill could be fixed going up the Half Mile bridge, Leaside spur, and building a Doncaster Diamond, but Ontario Line + YNSE + drive to another exurban station really takes care of the whole thing. ML will never touch it and I basically agree with them.

2. We've done all the low-hanging fruit. We've done lots of more expensive projects, like GTS, the west Toronto/Davenport diamonds, and a whole series of grade separations around the whole network. What's left are the capital expenditures that would make eyes at Queens Park pop. As mentioned, reactivating the midtown line would require lots of new bridges and paying off CP. Same goes with triple/quad tracking out to Milton. DT Brampton is too narrow for more tracks, the missing link only really makes sense if CP is diverted as well which requires shenenigans with the Agincourt yard, etc. and money for them again. At this point, electrification is a lower hanging fruit than huge capex on (re)building whole corridors. Also, believe it or not, electrification of individual lines can be separate projects. Hell, the major NY commuter operations have some diesel lines and some lines that have been electric for a century at this point. Electrification is the next thing that provides good value for the network. And I'm young enough that I think the Milton and midtown lines will see serious studies a decade from now, and maybe construction finishes before I turn 50.

3. Can't see what your point is about switching at Union. The simple fact is that some freight lines in the GTA were useless to CN for decades and some are a core part of the CP network, and the government doesn't have a money tree to fund everything. And I'm sorry, but essentially every suburb of the city that isn't Mississauga is on an electrified line. No shit it's expensive to live in Toronto these days.
 
Tough morning for GO.

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asher__jo said:
I'm really starting to think a light elevated metro line from Kipling to Square one following most of Milton rail corridor is a better solution.
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Agreed. I've been toying with the idea of in essence making the Milton Line the western extension of the Ontario Line. From Exhibition, within the LSW corridor to Roncesvalles, then up Roncy to Dundas West, then joining the Milton Line corridor north of there. I'd have the line end at Lisgar GO though, and build a mainline GO track in the 407 ROW from just north of Lisgar to just east of Bramalea. That way, the "Milton Line" could still run to Milton, but would use the Georgetown South corridor to reach Union.

The main advantage as I see it is the ability for the OL to use the Milton Line corridor where there's enough room, but to either tunnel under it where there isn't room, or to deviate from it when there's a major trip generator to hit (i.e. Square One).

In essence, this would turn the Ontario Line into the GTA's version of BART. Wider stop spacing in the suburbs, with the option for multiple branches in the suburbs where super high frequency metro is overkill.
 
gweed123 said:
I'd have the line end at Lisgar GO though, and build a mainline GO track in the 407 ROW from just north of Lisgar to just east of Bramalea. That way, the "Milton Line" could still run to Milton, but would use the Georgetown South corridor to reach Union.
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That 407 row should be left open for the potential freight bypass for CN which is necessary for the Kitchener line.
 
Sunnyside said:
Is there not more than enough room for both? The ROW is huge. I know utilities occupy a lot of it, but still.
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That was my assumption too. I think it makes sense to bundle those two projects together actually. 2 tracks for CN, 2 tracks for GO.

I believe the intent is to have both the 407 Transitway and the freight bypass within the ROW, and this GO line would in essence replace the need for the 407 Transitway (part of a larger GO rail corridor).
 
gweed123 said:
That was my assumption too. I think it makes sense to bundle those two projects together actually. 2 tracks for CN, 2 tracks for GO.

I believe the intent is to have both the 407 Transitway and the freight bypass within the ROW, and this GO line would in essence replace the need for the 407 Transitway (part of a larger GO rail corridor).
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I would imagine that the 407 Transitway being tentatively reworked into the 407/403 orbital/Interregional line frees up the relevant sections of the 407 to the Georgetown sub for GO's use between Milton and Brampton. I really do not think building along this section of the 407 is enough to satisfy orbital demand, however, seeing as the orbital line doesn't even plan to use it; it would primarily serve a different role for access to Milton/Brampton.

Really, if we get good at building rails along highways (which we should, given what is planned for the nu-transitway line and what the estimated costs for the missing link were to be) then doing both is obvious and cost-effective. CP would use the full bypass from Markham/Pickering to Milton, GO would use the 407 ROW through Brampton, and an independent transit line (nu-407 TransitWay) would use the parts of the 407 GO isn't.

I am cautious of unwittingly implying a need for 6 tracks in the 'core' section from Vaughan through Markham- if it is to contain the Missing Link and the 407 Transitway, then GO trains should not also be operating in the corridor unless interlined with the transitway. Keep all the users segregated and only build as much track as needed, seeing as we are talking about likely over 100km of trackage at this point.
 
Sunnyside said:
Is there not more than enough room for both? The ROW is huge. I know utilities occupy a lot of it, but still.
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The two areas where I would imagine there wouldn't be much room for more than 2-3 tracks running parallel to the 407 are;

a) Kennedy Rd & 407, Hurontario LRT train storage yard

b) Bramalea & 407, Magna auto parts plant and waste incineration plant

Everything else, such as the cricket fields, can easily be moved.
 
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