GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Sunnyside]

That 407 row should be left open for the potential freight bypass for CN which is necessary for the Kitchener line.

Is there not more than enough room for both? The ROW is huge. I know utilities occupy a lot of it, but still.

 

[gweed123]

Is there not more than enough room for both? The ROW is huge. I know utilities occupy a lot of it, but still.

That was my assumption too. I think it makes sense to bundle those two projects together actually. 2 tracks for CN, 2 tracks for GO.

I believe the intent is to have both the 407 Transitway and the freight bypass within the ROW, and this GO line would in essence replace the need for the 407 Transitway (part of a larger GO rail corridor).

 

[APTA-2048]

Suspicious package found at Bronte. Bomb unit on scene.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7106059

The package was found to not be an explosive, but police say they are now investigating whether or not it was intentionally left there to resemble that kind of device.

 

[Sunnyside]

That was my assumption too. I think it makes sense to bundle those two projects together actually. 2 tracks for CN, 2 tracks for GO.

I believe the intent is to have both the 407 Transitway and the freight bypass within the ROW, and this GO line would in essence replace the need for the 407 Transitway (part of a larger GO rail corridor).

I would imagine that the 407 Transitway being tentatively reworked into the 407/403 orbital/Interregional line frees up the relevant sections of the 407 to the Georgetown sub for GO's use between Milton and Brampton. I really do not think building along this section of the 407 is enough to satisfy orbital demand, however, seeing as the orbital line doesn't even plan to use it; it would primarily serve a different role for access to Milton/Brampton.

Really, if we get good at building rails along highways (which we should, given what is planned for the nu-transitway line and what the estimated costs for the missing link were to be) then doing both is obvious and cost-effective. CP would use the full bypass from Markham/Pickering to Milton, GO would use the 407 ROW through Brampton, and an independent transit line (nu-407 TransitWay) would use the parts of the 407 GO isn't.

I am cautious of unwittingly implying a need for 6 tracks in the 'core' section from Vaughan through Markham- if it is to contain the Missing Link and the 407 Transitway, then GO trains should not also be operating in the corridor unless interlined with the transitway. Keep all the users segregated and only build as much track as needed, seeing as we are talking about likely over 100km of trackage at this point.

 

[Allandale25]

This article was posted in r/Waterloo and someone made this comment. We'll see if this "three to four months" for weekend service pans out.

View attachment 537156

Metrolinx has responded:

Link they provided: May 2, 2022 article

 

[crs1026]

Note to self: time to do some research into the dates when ML first told the public - and the Legislature - that they had begun negotiating with CN over the Kitchener line upgrade.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

Is there not more than enough room for both? The ROW is huge. I know utilities occupy a lot of it, but still.

The two areas where I would imagine there wouldn't be much room for more than 2-3 tracks running parallel to the 407 are;

a) Kennedy Rd & 407, Hurontario LRT train storage yard

b) Bramalea & 407, Magna auto parts plant and waste incineration plant

Everything else, such as the cricket fields, can easily be moved.

 

[crs1026]

Note to self: time to do some research into the dates when ML first told the public - and the Legislature - that they had begun negotiating with CN over the Kitchener line upgrade.

- Paul

After some poking around in a rabbit hole, here is an Update - a little scanning of old ML Board Meeting minutes reveals that

CN and ML signed an agreement in principle to pursue the ill-fated freight bypass in August 2016

In 2017-2018, ML made a lot of noise about its ongoing negotiations with CN for the Bypass, and did a lot of study, One media report here.

In March 2019, Phil Verster held a town hall in Kitchener in which he reported positive progress in negotiations with CN

In November 2019, ML approved a new IBC for the project, which declared a preference for a negotiated upgrade of the Halton Sub in preference to the Bypass. There was a fair bit of local press referring to such negotiations eg here.

In September 2020, Verster's success in negotiations with CP/CN was cited in justifying a raise in his salary.

In March 2021, ML released a second IBC dealing with the Silver Flyover.

And here we sit, in 2024.

While some work seems to be starting to add a third track through Brampton, I am not aware of any formal announcement of actual agreements being reached with CN about this, or about improvements in the Norval-Silver section of the route.

Those who do not study history are doomed to wait for a train that has yet to arrive.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

After some poking around in a rabbit hole, here is an Update - a little scanning of old ML Board Meeting minutes reveals that

CN and ML signed an agreement in principle to pursue the ill-fated freight bypass in August 2016

In 2017-2018, ML made a lot of noise about its ongoing negotiations with CN for the Bypass, and did a lot of study, One media report here.

In March 2019, Phil Verster held a town hall in Kitchener in which he reported positive progress in negotiations with CN

In November 2019, ML approved a new IBC for the project, which declared a preference for a negotiated upgrade of the Halton Sub in preference to the Bypass. There was a fair bit of local press referring to such negotiations eg here.

In September 2020, Verster's success in negotiations with CP/CN was cited in justifying a raise in his salary.

In March 2021, ML released a second IBC dealing with the Silver Flyover.

And here we sit, in 2024.

While some work seems to be starting to add a third track through Brampton, I am not aware of any formal announcement of actual agreements being reached with CN about this, or about improvements in the Norval-Silver section of the route.

Those who do not study history are doomed to wait for a train that has yet to arrive.

- Paul

Metrolinx initiated some expropriation around the Credit River for the rail separation but I'm not sure where that stands.

 

[Northern Light]

After some poking around in a rabbit hole, here is an Update - a little scanning of old ML Board Meeting minutes reveals that

CN and ML signed an agreement in principle to pursue the ill-fated freight bypass in August 2016

In 2017-2018, ML made a lot of noise about its ongoing negotiations with CN for the Bypass, and did a lot of study, One media report here.

In March 2019, Phil Verster held a town hall in Kitchener in which he reported positive progress in negotiations with CN

In November 2019, ML approved a new IBC for the project, which declared a preference for a negotiated upgrade of the Halton Sub in preference to the Bypass. There was a fair bit of local press referring to such negotiations eg here.

In September 2020, Verster's success in negotiations with CP/CN was cited in justifying a raise in his salary.

In March 2021, ML released a second IBC dealing with the Silver Flyover.

And here we sit, in 2024.

While some work seems to be starting to add a third track through Brampton, I am not aware of any formal announcement of actual agreements being reached with CN about this, or about improvements in the Norval-Silver section of the route.

Those who do not study history are doomed to wait for a train that has yet to arrive.

- Paul

Excellent work Paul; my sincere applause!

 

[allengeorge]

In March 2021, ML released a second IBC dealing with the Silver Flyover.

And here we sit, in 2024.

That’s truly upsetting. So, despite a lot of jaw-jaw and some preliminary work, nothing concrete has happened.

A concrete example of your perennial complaint that Metrolinx doesn’t align projects so that they actually deliver the stated value (since for GO the effects substantially come into play when all the projects are completed.)

 

[gweed123]

The two areas where I would imagine there wouldn't be much room for more than 2-3 tracks running parallel to the 407 are;

a) Kennedy Rd & 407, Hurontario LRT train storage yard

b) Bramalea & 407, Magna auto parts plant and waste incineration plant

Everything else, such as the cricket fields, can easily be moved.

Bramalea and 407 would likely require tunnelling of the GO tracks anyway in order to provide a better connection with Bramalea GO. In all likelihood, the GO corridor would veer north along the 410, then veer east under Steeles. It would then continue under Steeles until it rejoined the 407 corridor east of Torbram. The bypass corridor would stay along the 407 corridor and connect directly with the York Sub.

East of Hurontario would be a pinch for sure though.

 

[sixrings]

Bramalea and 407 would likely require tunnelling of the GO tracks anyway in order to provide a better connection with Bramalea GO. In all likelihood, the GO corridor would veer north along the 410, then veer east under Steeles. It would then continue under Steeles until it rejoined the 407 corridor east of Torbram. The bypass corridor would stay along the 407 corridor and connect directly with the York Sub.

East of Hurontario would be a pinch for sure though.

can I get a map of this theoretical Ontario line west plan.... I can't imagine it in my head and although im new out west some of these names make it hard to picture.

 

[gweed123]

can I get a map of this theoretical Ontario line west plan.... I can't imagine it in my head and although im new out west some of these names make it hard to picture.

Working on one, haha. This wouldn't be part of the OL West though. That line would supplant the Milton Line up until Lisgar GO.

This particular stretch of line would be used by a future 'perimeter' line. GO service to Milton would use the existing Milton Line tracks from Milton to Lisgar, and then would use this new corridor along the 407 until Bramalea. At Bramalea, Milton Line service would join the Kitchener Line corridor to access downtown Toronto. The perimeter line would continue east along the 407 ROW across York Region and potentially into Durham Region.

 

[Metroscapes]

That’s truly upsetting. So, despite a lot of jaw-jaw and some preliminary work, nothing concrete has happened.

Just look at how long a mainline platform Georgetown GO has been talked about, with no action. Or the decade it took to get a proper switch in for Silver, that wasn't on a superelevated curve and requiring GO trains to crawl through it at 5 mph. I have little faith that a flyover's gonna move fast.