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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Only only one I can think of that could be useful was the Newmarket sub between Allandale and Washago and the section between North bay and capreol, however considering the amount of condos and buildings on the ROW in Barrie its safe to assume this will never happen...

I still think it would be great if the Branchton sub could sneak a GO train into Cambridge off the CN main in Lynden if CP won't play ball (since its old corridor is still relatively intact), but that's a total napkin fantasy plan. I have no idea what sort of speeds the curve radii would allow.
 
I still think it would be great if the Branchton sub could sneak a GO train into Cambridge off the CN main in Lynden if CP won't play ball (since its old corridor is still relatively intact), but that's a total napkin fantasy plan. I have no idea what sort of speeds the curve radii would allow.
What about that is preferable to Fergus?
 
As an aside, sometimes it can difficult to track old ROWs if they were abandoned long ago enough or built over, even if you have an old route map.
My favourite tool is the Google Earth KMZ file that floats around here once in a while. There’s two versions; one has Radial Railways and all streetcar lines, the other does not (but is more up-to-date on alignments and stations for actual railways). I can share the file if anyone’s interested.
For passenger or freight, which of these segments, if any, offer a compelling case for reactivation?
Obviously, this is a matter of who you ask and what the priorities are. Some motivations are obvious, and I'll start with the "bad" ones: Some 'transit nerds' don't consider merit beyond how they appear on a map, or simply hold nostalgia for a particular line. They're ambitious, but don't dive into specifics to make informed calls to action because many really aren't needed. In the real world, we MUST start by acknowledging that their utility existed under particular circumstances (this is my core logic); our basis is whether or not that original or a new use case (re-)emerges. Much hard work was already done on these corridors, so we might be hard-pressed to find a better route (as a whole) anyhow. Finally, we must consider freight first, because they are the ones who had/have tangible financial reasons to build, abandon and rebuild railroads. Governments might have reasons, but they must be very solid, as they lack the means and incentives that otherwise grease these wheels.

I'm establishing all this because the belief that rebuilding these is a non-starter is only true if we accept that the railroads are going to continue their current business model- and things are never constant. The challenge today is that it's pretty hard to know if there is merit for reactivating a line, because all sectors appear disinterested. But with that, these are my two criteria an abandoned corridor must meet:

A: the passenger case is ridiculously strong: it either connects two closely tied towns/cities or can function as an urban service that meets a planned (or unplanned) need inside an urban area better (ie, cheaper) than a new-build.
B: It makes the freight railroad's lives easier (even if not overwhelmingly so). They must get their pound.
C: The Fallacy- Economic gains would exceed the cost, outside of any notion of financial tradeoffs. Simply stating that if we built it tomorrow, it'd make people's lives better, is disconnected from reality.

So back to the original question. Where is there justification to rebuild a railway today? Straight out the gate, I am from Hamilton, so I'll appear biased (these discussions always are) but that's why I am only commenting there. My picks all hinge on an assumption that we see the utility of retaining similarly divested rail in the entire GO Network already (Barrie comes to mind). The difference is that Toronto/GO actively pursued retaining them while Hamilton did not/could not. How Ambitious.

1. The CN Beach Sub (Burlington Beach) is my first and strongest candidate.
1688706158581.png

Today's RTPs seem to focus all transit around Hamilton's western gateway- the 403 and CN/CP rail corridors- despite the city being fundamentally connected to the GTA in TWO places, not one. If we accept regional travel is ~mirrored by the highway system, then GO cannot ever compete with driving for those closer to Confederation GO (the QEW) than Hamilton Centre/West Harbour (so everyone east of about Sherman) as it heads west around the bay- this gives half of Hamilton and all of Niagara a raw deal. We seem to assume that poor local transit demand indicates minimal regional demand, despite HSR #11's irrelevance, vast QEW traffic, and Confederation GO's existence suggesting the contrary. Reimagining the Beach sub (but grade-separated) could pull CN (and CP) traffic out of western Hamilton, separate+improve freight access to the resurging North End, and enable better transit service for East Hamilton, Niagara, and downtown at the same time. The MTO is well aware of the QEW's congestion; if they examined a tunnelled highway under the lake for relief, I'd say a parallel railway is seriously competitive.

2. Second up is CN's H&LER sub (idk CN's name) from Caledonia to Hamilton Centre.
1688706020925-png.490404


For being abandoned in the 90s, this one's embarrassing. With its geographic divide, this ensured the mountain remains locally & regionally isolated, and more car-dependent than most GTHA suburbs for decades to come. There is no longer a clear path for GO or CN/CP to reach YHM, despite industry rapidly clustering around it and the old corridor itself. And, with the railway in use south of Caledonia, we could link Port Dover. Unfortunately, being only single-tracked pushes it dangerously close to non-starter territory if we want good rail access. Maybe the city should've screwed its head on better, because now there's a dangerous freeway but no rail.

3. This final one is more of an unfortunate loss, because it's fairly hard to justify: rebuilding one of the railways connecting Cambridge to Brantford.
1688706244911.png

This would better link KW-C, Guelph, Hamilton, and Brantford, and while the need may not explicitly be present today, its loss reinforces the massive gap in infrastructure between these cities. Unfortunately it is quite hard to tell what the demand here actually is, because every road link is either slow or indirect, and proper transit between the two (if one could even call GO bus 17 that) has only existed for... a few months. This one firmly fits into the 'C' criteria; there are probably benefits, but there is no explicit need worth compromising existing plans over.
 

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^Hamilton is a good place to start if one were looking for a next level for higher order transit.

There is indeed logic in linking some of the city pairs that the old branch lines and radials used to connect - in particular. Kitchener/Guelph - Cambridge - Brantford, Kitchener-Hamilton, Brantford-Hamilton (by means other than the CN line). And up the Mountain towards Rymal.

I'm not sure that any of these would be well served by tying new build to past rail routes, however. There may be better solutions by using only small stretches of old rights of way (as K-W did with iOn). And local connectivity may demand linking hubs that are not on the old route.

The other consideration is that any line built today must manage standards that weren't applicable to the old lines. A new line will have to be fenced, possibly grade separated from day one, etc. If catenary is desired, different voltages require different styles of overhead. The old route up Ferguson Ave in Hamilton would be great to reconnect West Harbour to Caledonia.... but we just don't run trains up the middle of a street anymore.

Lastly, we need a new fleet solution. The world has all sorts of EMU/DMU choices that are larger than a Flexity but smaller than a GO bilevel or a Siemens Venture.

- Paul
 
What about that* is preferable to Fergus?

*the old Branchton sub off the CN mainline

It goes to a more populated area of Cambridge that's also the site of a major bus terminal, and the future terminating point of ION Phase 2 (which admittedly may never get built due to the recent cost re-estimation).
 
^Hamilton is a good place to start if one were looking for a next level for higher order transit.

There is indeed logic in linking some of the city pairs that the old branch lines and radials used to connect - in particular. Kitchener/Guelph - Cambridge - Brantford, Kitchener-Hamilton, Brantford-Hamilton (by means other than the CN line). And up the Mountain towards Rymal.

I'm not sure that any of these would be well served by tying new build to past rail routes, however. There may be better solutions by using only small stretches of old rights of way (as K-W did with iOn). And local connectivity may demand linking hubs that are not on the old route.

The other consideration is that any line built today must manage standards that weren't applicable to the old lines. A new line will have to be fenced, possibly grade separated from day one, etc. If catenary is desired, different voltages require different styles of overhead. The old route up Ferguson Ave in Hamilton would be great to reconnect West Harbour to Caledonia.... but we just don't run trains up the middle of a street anymore.

Lastly, we need a new fleet solution. The world has all sorts of EMU/DMU choices that are larger than a Flexity but smaller than a GO bilevel or a Siemens Venture.

- Paul
Agreed, this was kinda what I was getting at with CN’s line up the mountain- if it was kept, it’s perfect, but if we want to fill the same role today we have to get more creative, and the ROW might only be useful at the top of the escarpment.

I do think DMU/EMUs make a lot of sense for the smaller cities to the west that you mentioned. Full GO service is impractical, and using LRVs doesn’t sit right with me (someone often suggests running the iON straight into the Hamilton LRT someday). I’ve often believed Hamilton is a good place to try out something a bit heavier than LRT, but not quite a metro- it has the bones to grow into a much more transit-supportive, dense city than a peer like KW, but not to the degree of Toronto obviously.

Foregoing new corridors for a moment, a frequent DMU service along LSW from Grimsby to Burlington GO would be a good way to capture Hamilton-Burlington demand, because the current system isn’t built for this at all despite how closely tied the two cities are. Would be fairly straightforward and would nicely complement the LRT as an express frequent service- especially seeing as electrification will end at Burlington anyhow. Ironically I think this might be the most on-topic comment for a few days, lol.
 
*the old Branchton sub off the CN mainline

It goes to a more populated area of Cambridge that's also the site of a major bus terminal, and the future terminating point of ION Phase 2 (which admittedly may never get built due to the recent cost re-estimation).
OTOH Fergus ties into the top of Hespeler Road and offers lots of potential for a tram-train to continue to Galt via Ion..

Which also opens the door to Brantford and Hamilton corridors (my own preference would be GVR via Paris, a new Hamilton entry via Dundas tied into the LRT and terminating on the West Harbour branch the Hamilton LRT was supposed to get.
 
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OTOH Fergus ties into the top of Hespeler Road and offers lots of potential for a tram-train to continue to Galt via Ion..

Which also opens the door to Brantford and Hamilton corridors (Amy own preference would be GVR via Paris, a new Hamilton entry via Dundas tied into the LRT and terminating on the West Harbour branch the Hamilton LRT was supposed to get.
I'm still holding out for the government to announce that the A-Line will be an LRT or better. BRT is silly since James st. is clearly conducive to LRT (lots of transfer demand) and Upper James is never going to see redevelopment like the city (and ultimately, the province) wants with a BRT. I think the James branch of the B-Line was well-meaning, but it compromised reaching Eastgate, which is a very good eastern terminus. Only Confederation GO would be better.

I do have quite a hard time buying into what is essentially a modern Interurban, however. The iON today takes almost an hour to ride end-to-end. The Cambridge extension is nearly just as long, and even with the benefit of the doubt on travel times, your looking at a minimum of 1:30 to go from Conestoga Mall to Cambridge. That's all before you've even left Waterloo Region, which from the Cambridge terminus is about 45 minutes away from Hamilton by car- never mind diverting through Paris/ Brantford. I would want a guarantee that the travel time from Cambridge-Brantford and Brantford-Hamilton is very quick to see merit here. Because right now, all I see is a 2.5-3 hour+ trip by LRV, with no single segment being competitive anywho.
 
I would be interested to see what the boardings were in Stratford during the test and how many got off in Kitchener? People there putting up a fuss!

People kept posting on Twitter the same video of a packed platform, so presumably, there is demand. Being the same blurry video over and over again doesn't make me very confident this was much more than a one-off, though. It'd be nice if APC data was public, but alas.
 
I would be interested to see what the boardings were in Stratford during the test and how many got off in Kitchener? People there putting up a fuss!

I have ridden the GO twice between Stratford and Union Station. The last time I rode it, (December 2022) roughly 15 people boarded in Stratford.
 
1/4 bus full. Why not just run buses from London to meet the first Kitchener train?

This is part of the issue with the piecemeal approach of regionalized transit in Ontario. There is a bus service between London, Stratford, and Kitchener/Waterloo, but it’s run by Perth County, and mostly designed to connect Stratford, St. Marys, Listowel, and other communities to the larger nearby centres. It’s not designed to connect directly with GO’s schedules, though the Stratford route it does stop near the Kitchener GO station.
 
This is part of the issue with the piecemeal approach of regionalized transit in Ontario. There is a bus service between London, Stratford, and Kitchener/Waterloo, but it’s run by Perth County, and mostly designed to connect Stratford, St. Marys, Listowel, and other communities to the larger nearby centres. It’s not designed to connect directly with GO’s schedules, though the Stratford route it does stop near the Kitchener GO station.
Absorb the whole thing under Metrolinx. Or just run a go bus to meet every GO train from Kitchener and back to London. At least for rush hour. What is that? 4 buses? The problem is that you would need to dead head from Kitchener and there are no yard facilities in London. Maybe London Transit can be a host? Or contract it out to great Canadian or Badder and put portable hand held presto units in them. I'm sure they wouldn't mind having paying government line runs.

Would you need different drivers for day and evening? Since they would likely exceed their daily limit.
 
I do have quite a hard time buying into what is essentially a modern Interurban, however. ... I would want a guarantee that the travel time from Cambridge-Brantford and Brantford-Hamilton is very quick to see merit here. Because right now, all I see is a 2.5-3 hour+ trip by LRV, with no single segment being competitive anywho.
Agreed. This thing is very much a modern incarnation of an interurban, and the routing only works if the Cambridge - Brantford and Brantford - Hamilton legs are competitive in their own right, and I admit that there is real vulnerability in both by going through Dundas on one and diverting to Paris on the other. With that said, the highway connectivity isn't great either, and as far as putting money into studies goes, I would make this single corridor the starting point. Ultimately I suspect this project will pencil out better, even if it needs quasi HSR speeds where it has its own right of way than building independent lower speed Cambridge - Brantford, Hamilton - Cambridge and Hamilton - Guelph corridors. I'd also object to the focus you put on Ion's slowness in Waterloo Region; you aren't wrong (and in a perfect world a Waterloo Region light metro more heavily emphasizing rail corridors, elevation and building a Kitchener subway along roughly Queen St would have been justified, and very much in the spirt of what UTDC envisioned for ICTS IMO) but ultimately we are talking about a fundamentally intercity service that re-uses Hespeler Rd, not the entirety of ION. It might not be FAST, but it offer good demand, good station locations along the route, and the alternative would be the still not great re-use of the CN corridor along Confederation / King.

I do absolutely agree that the highest priority in Hamilton ought to be getting the LRT to Confederation.

As something of an aside, my actual take on the Ion costs is that while we need to take a serious look at whether anything can be done to control the escalation, the project is of enough strategic importance that we should still bite the bullet on it ASAP. With that said, there probably should be a de-coupling of Hespeler Road from the Cambridge extension. The brutal costs come from the infrastructure needed to get from Fairway to the top of Hespeler Road. Hespeler Road on the other hand would be viable as a BRT corridor in it's own right without LRT, doubly so if it were tied into the 401 with bus only ramps and improved GO bus connectivity at Pinebush. In short, I think the project should stil be move forward, but if it IS delayed, redesigning Hespeler for bus compatibility would be a good idea anyway, and that modified Hespeler Rd ROW really could be built with rails but without electrification (in anticipation of both ION and a Guelph line) independently of any delays to the actual Kitchener - Cambridge link.
 
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