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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Willybru21 said:
Yesterday I spoke to the CSA that took over at Mimico, they said the police had taken over the scene for the investigation and wouldn’t allow any sort of official evacuation even if one was proposed by GO. He showed me a photo that he was sent of the nearest bridge and how emergency services were getting down and it indeed was far too steep, to the point where a rope would’ve needed to be used to get people up (not feasible for thousands of people).

As for crowding, the cab car hit the person and the train stopped as the first coach and locomotive were sitting on top of the remains, so everyone in the first coach was forced to move further up the train as to not have to see the remains of who was hit, which reduced the already busy train to 11 usable cars, later on; when people pried the door open on another coach, that one was also closed for the remainder of the trip (I can’t remember if they switched trains as Mimico or Oakville, so it wasn’t an issue for too long, further reducing capacity.

I agree that Metrolinx and GO didn’t handle the situation correctly, but they also did the most they could’ve done in that situation, it’s just the general public doesn’t know or understand how these sort of things are handled.
Click to expand...

I really wanted to like this post for its informative quality; but as a like is a broad endorsement, I have to pass for that one statement in the closing line....

I don't accept the bolded, at all.

To the extent the police restricted an evacuation ............, which I'm not certain was requested..............

That would be unacceptable.

If the problem is a lack of protocols for GO or emergency services, shame on everyone because, sadly, this is not the first, or second, or 100th on-track fatality, I certainly remember some as a child in the 80s.

There should have been proper protocol a very long time ago.

People need to get their act together and stop making government look bad, and hysterical complainers look reasonable.
 
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^"People don't understand how we do these things" is an excuse that no public-serving agency should ever offer to justify themselves.

As I related a few pages back, I had my own recent experience with an over-filled, late night GO train. I'm not claustrophobic, but the compression of people in the upper floors of a GO bilevel really bothered me. It was plainly unsafe, even for an operating train that wasn't facing a significant delay. Had there have been a medical or other incident, people were effectively gridlocked.

At the risk of sounding a bit old, I find that late night GO train crowds- especially after music events - can be pretty mean (those of us from the hippy generation partied just as hard downtown, but somehow we were a lot more mellow and good natured). Oddly, heavy metal crowds seem to be mellow - but country music fans generally aren't nice afterwards.

The idea that a trainful of people can be directed to just chill indefinitely under cramped conditions, while the authorities do their thing, is asking for trouble IMHO. It's very complicated, but there is some urgency to making improvements and being more prepared for contingencies.

- Paul
 
Bordercollie said:
You could still park a train on the adjacent track and transfer customers in less than 3 hours.
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It's certainly possible that a train could be brought somewhat close to the scene, and passengers required to walk to it.... but there will be concerns about terrain, lighting, disabled riders, etc. That activity could require as many personnel as is required to address the victim and the investigation - and it would require a much greater level of coordination and control. Which is essentially why the police would be reluctant to allow it - they don't need the added risk and distraction. But at some level, they may just have to make the effort, especially in crush load conditions.

Moving a train into the scene while any number of first responders are at work (who may have brought gear to the scene) (and who may be detailed to move all over the place taking measurements, photos, etc) (and who are not familiar with railway rules, procedures, terminology, or the specific layout of the location) is not as easy as it may sound.

The various agencies use different protocols, their communications systems may not interconnect, personnel will be trying to accomplish any number of things and may be heads-down or not able to accept distractions. One doesn't just creep a train into a group of busy people and hope they will all notice and step out of the way. The precautions and procedures that are used to protect railway employees working at track level don't generalise well to these multi-agency incidents, which is why better protocols are needed.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
It's certainly possible that a train could be brought somewhat close to the scene, and passengers required to walk to it.... but there will be concerns about terrain, lighting, disabled riders, etc. That activity could require as many personnel as is required to address the victim and the investigation - and it would require a much greater level of coordination and control. Which is essentially why the police would be reluctant to allow it - they don't need the added risk and distraction. But at some level, they may just have to make the effort, especially in crush load conditions.

Moving a train into the scene while any number of first responders are at work (who may have brought gear to the scene) (and who may be detailed to move all over the place taking measurements, photos, etc) (and who are not familiar with railway rules, procedures, terminology, or the specific layout of the location) is not as easy as it may sound.

The various agencies use different protocols, their communications systems may not interconnect, personnel will be trying to accomplish any number of things and may be heads-down or not able to accept distractions. One doesn't just creep a train into a group of busy people and hope they will all notice and step out of the way. The precautions and procedures that are used to protect railway employees working at track level don't generalise well to these multi-agency incidents, which is why better protocols are needed.

- Paul
Click to expand...
It's somewhat similar to the olden days when cops et al would wander around a collision scene separated from high speed moving traffic by a line of cones, flares or some flashing lights. You've got your head down and focused on the task, not the traffic. It doesn't happen now - roadways are closed completely. Safety applies to the public as well as the workers.
 
crs1026 said:
It's certainly possible that a train could be brought somewhat close to the scene, and passengers required to walk to it.... but there will be concerns about terrain, lighting, disabled riders, etc. That activity could require as many personnel as is required to address the victim and the investigation - and it would require a much greater level of coordination and control. Which is essentially why the police would be reluctant to allow it - they don't need the added risk and distraction. But at some level, they may just have to make the effort, especially in crush load conditions.
Click to expand...
Right because what if the cops had said "this train isn't moving for the next six hours"?

So I guess the real question is what is the cutoff time, and what factors go into deciding that if it's a variable time based on circumstance. I also think that is something that should be public and have public input.
Perhaps they also need to have an annual test of this. Pack a few cars full and tell the authorities to "walk them out of here". They do these multi-agency tests every few years for terrorist attacks where a few hundred people pretend they are injured/dead on a Sunday morning outside Union Station or somewhere downtown and then all the agencies have to clear the scene together. Maybe if they go through this test they would be more willing to let it happen when really needed, and happen without the most extreme safety precautions that take hours to set up.
 
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Northern Light said:
I really wanted to like this post for its informative quality; but as a like is a broad endorsement, I have to pass for that one statement in the closing line....

I don't accept the bolded, at all.

To the extent the police restricted an evacuation ............, which I'm not certain was requested..............

That would be unacceptable.

If the problem is a lack of protocols for GO or emergency services, shame on everyone because, sadly, this is not the first, or second, or 100th on-track fatality, I certainly remember some as a child in the 80s.

There should have been proper protocol a very long time ago.

People need to get their act together and stop making government look bad, and hysterical complainers look reasonable.
Click to expand...
I mean the police restricted an evacuation as it was not necessary at the moment, nobody onboard was in serious danger and it would’ve been far more dangerous to have everyone (the thousands of people which included accessibility and drunk people) walk over the tracks and up the incline that emergency services needed a rope to use.

I agree with you though with the rest of your reply, they should have had a proper procedure ready and perfected years ago, but I think this specific incident was just a case where so much went wrong at once.
 
Any chance of this being true?
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Willybru21 said:
Any chance of this being true?
Click to expand...

Yes, there's a chance.

This is in line with what I had heard going back to spring, which had, to my understanding been contemplated as 2 phase implementation in June and Sept.

Then neither happened.

So the idea is credible.

My question is if all those staff are available for October runs, where were they earlier?

Mx was supposed to have its pipeline of staff ready starting in June..............and then September.

So I certainly believe increases are coming, but how much and when I'm giving up on predicting for a few weeks. I used to have a good track record on these things.......but Mx and plans have not
been meeting reality well the last while.

Edit to add, if increases are actually on the table for October @smallspy might have a beat on that.
 
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anb said:
Idc if those alleged changes come in October or January, just give us the Kitchener hourly weekend service at the very least. This will be the bare minimum just to make weekend travel less incompetent in the west end until they can truly go forward with the rest of those updates.
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It’s ludacris that Metrolinx’s solution to heavy weekend traffic in Toronto is to reroute Kitchener Line buses to Port Credit. These bandit solutions won’t work and will get worse especially during situations such as last Friday.

A weekend train will help alleviate this.
 
Garuda said:
It’s ludacris that Metrolinx’s solution to heavy weekend traffic in Toronto is to reroute Kitchener Line buses to Port Credit. These bandit solutions won’t work and will get worse especially during situations such as last Friday.

A weekend train will help alleviate this.
Click to expand...

I’d also route a 21 Milton-Meadowvale bus branch to Bramalea GO as well. Port Credit can be for Streetsville-Erindale and Square One-Cooksville buses only, where they’re not routed far out of their way.
 
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