GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[EnviroTO]

So if I'm correct, GO already owns the entire CN Uxbridge Sub (except what was abandoned Lindsay-Uxbridge) the entire Weston Sub, the entire Newmarket Sub and the USRC-Canpa portion of the Dundas Sub as well as the CP USRC-West Toronto Galt Sub? (and of course, the GO sub between Pickering and Oshawa).

I think the point being made is that currently only the Barrie line runs wholly on GO owned track. After this purchase the Stouffville and Lakeshore East lines will run wholly on GO owned track.

 

[gweed123]

I'm a bit unclear as to what these purchases mean. I'm assuming this means that GO now gets first crack at scheduling, etc right? Meaning that VIA and CN/CP need to schedule their trains around when GO wants the tracks, not the other way around. Forgive me, operations of commercial railways are not my area of expertise, haha. Does this mean GO also takes on the maintenance of these tracks?

 

[accura407]

So if the Barrie Line is wholly owned by GO, why isn't go transit adding *at least* one extra train in the morning and afternoon? The 7:58 from York U and 17:17 from union are jam packed...I'm sure ridership would increase if an extra train was put in...

I'm not entirely knowledgeable about train scheduling but what issues are in place to run an extra train somewhere in between 16:40 and 18:00?

To my knowledge, the only potential conflict I see is the davenport rail crossing

P.S. Presto is now active at York U GO station! Just used it today! 10 Rides are history

 

[smallspy]

I'm a bit unclear as to what these purchases mean. I'm assuming this means that GO now gets first crack at scheduling, etc right? Meaning that VIA and CN/CP need to schedule their trains around when GO wants the tracks, not the other way around. Forgive me, operations of commercial railways are not my area of expertise, haha. Does this mean GO also takes on the maintenance of these tracks?

Correct on all counts. It also has the additional benefit of GO being able to make whatever upgrades needed to the lines without having to worry about CN throwing a tantrum, as is the case elsewhere on the system.

So if the Barrie Line is wholly owned by GO, why isn't go transit adding *at least* one extra train in the morning and afternoon? The 7:58 from York U and 17:17 from union are jam packed...I'm sure ridership would increase if an extra train was put in...

I'm not entirely knowledgeable about train scheduling but what issues are in place to run an extra train somewhere in between 16:40 and 18:00?

Two reasons: Signalling and equipment. There must be a "temporal separation" of at least 30 minutes between trains travelling in the same direction on track signalled with OCS. This is not an issue with CTC or ABS, as both use signals to indicate block occupancy. And in terms of equipment, GO has lots of locos now, but needs more coaches. There are another 20 on the way for later this year.

Other than those issues, they could put more trains in service on the line, but they would not be able to help lessen the load on the existing trains - they would have to run before or after the existing ones.

To my knowledge, the only potential conflict I see is the davenport rail crossing

This is also a major issue, although GO would actually have right-of-way across the diamond as theirs was the first line through. They should be starting a new EA early next year IIRC.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[accura407]

Correct on all counts. It also has the additional benefit of GO being able to make whatever upgrades needed to the lines without having to worry about CN throwing a tantrum, as is the case elsewhere on the system.

So When GO Transit Does invest money in adding an extra track along an existing CN/CP Line...who ends up owning it? Also, who put in the money to build the 3rd track along the CN Halton Sub?

Two reasons: Signalling and equipment. There must be a "temporal separation" of at least 30 minutes between trains travelling in the same direction on track signalled with OCS. This is not an issue with CTC or ABS, as both use signals to indicate block occupancy. And in terms of equipment, GO has lots of locos now, but needs more coaches. There are another 20 on the way for later this year.

Please explain what OCS, CTC, or ABS means? I am just learning...

Other than those issues, they could put more trains in service on the line, but they would not be able to help lessen the load on the existing trains - they would have to run before or after the existing ones.

Yeah that's why i was thinking...There should be a train in between either the 16:40 and 17:17 or between 17:17 and 18:00

When will a new signalling system (Like what is on Lakeshore...allowing the 10-15 min intervals) come into play? How long does it take on average to install an entire signalling system?

Does GO Have plans to put in express trains on the Barrie Line? I would think that since it is such a long route, it probably deserves at least one express trip in the time slot mentioned above...

This is also a major issue, although GO would actually have right-of-way across the diamond as theirs was the first line through. They should be starting a new EA early next year IIRC.

So if signalling is the major issue and this isn't, then why does GO have to wait for a solution on this diamond before making other necessary upgrades? My thought was that the moment the Snider Rail seperation was complete, service would increase but nothing has changed since...

Thanks

 

[rbt]

So When GO Transit Does invest money in adding an extra track along an existing CN/CP Line...who ends up owning it? Also, who put in the money to build the 3rd track along the CN Halton Sub?

They're building tracks on someone elses land and can be expected to pay an appropriate lease rate for that. Maintenance, inspections, plowing, security, etc. of the new track is also required.

It is best described as GO receiving a discount on wheelage fees and getting some improvement to scheduling abilities while paying enough to cover the above items.

 

[smallspy]

So When GO Transit Does invest money in adding an extra track along an existing CN/CP Line...who ends up owning it? Also, who put in the money to build the 3rd track along the CN Halton Sub?

CN or CP will then own the new track and will dispatch it, although as "rbt" correctly points out GO does benefit by getting more track time available to them. I'm not entirely sure about the wheelage/track time fees, however.

Please explain what OCS, CTC, or ABS means? I am just learning...

OCS - Occupancy Control System
CTC - Centralized (or Computerized) Traffic Control
ABS - Automatic Block Signal

I'm generally loathe to suggest Wikipedia as a source to anything, however the article on railway signalling is actually pretty decent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_signalling

For more specific stuff, Transport Canada's site is the place to go for info the the systems, and the regulations (in Canada) which govern them. For instance, I present to you the OCS page - http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco93-172.htm

Yeah that's why i was thinking...There should be a train in between either the 16:40 and 17:17 or between 17:17 and 18:00

Except that they can't as things are right now, as you would then no longer have a 30 minute separation between trains. The best that they could do is add a train at 18:30, or 15:40, and neither of those would provide much help.

GO is going to be upgrading at least one of the trains to Barrie to an L12 very soon, however, which will at least provide a little bit of breathing space.

When will a new signalling system (Like what is on Lakeshore...allowing the 10-15 min intervals) come into play? How long does it take on average to install an entire signalling system?

Because it will completely change the way the trains will run, and will allow for a huge increase in capacity, an EA must be done before any physical work can be begun.

Does GO Have plans to put in express trains on the Barrie Line? I would think that since it is such a long route, it probably deserves at least one express trip in the time slot mentioned above...

Eventually. A lot of things need to be accomplished before that point is reached, however. Like a new signalling system, more tracks, etc.

So if signalling is the major issue and this isn't, then why does GO have to wait for a solution on this diamond before making other necessary upgrades? My thought was that the moment the Snider Rail seperation was complete, service would increase but nothing has changed since...

Thanks

I didn't say that the diamond wasn't a major issue - it is. It won't become as pressing an issue, however, until the new signalling system is put into place and the trains can be run more frequently. The concern about timing is moot anyways, as it will all be covered under the EA.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Platform 27]

So if I'm correct, GO already owns the entire CN Uxbridge Sub (except what was abandoned Lindsay-Uxbridge) the entire Weston Sub, the entire Newmarket Sub and the USRC-Canpa portion of the Dundas Sub as well as the CP USRC-West Toronto Galt Sub? (and of course, the GO sub between Pickering and Oshawa).

I believe you're correct (CN Dundas = CN Oakville, to be a pedant). And also the USRC, and the (out-of-service, but protected for the future) former CP Don branch.

That would then leave only the CN Bala Sub (Richmond Hill), CN Halton Sub (Bramalea-Georgetown), CP Galt Sub (West Toronto-Milton) and CP between Bayview Junction and the TH&B station?

...don't forget the CN Oakville sub from Canpa to Bayview. Biggest-ridership chunk of track in the whole network, but probably scary-expensive to contemplate buying in the near future.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

...don't forget the CN Oakville sub from Canpa to Bayview. Biggest-ridership chunk of track in the whole network, but probably scary-expensive to contemplate buying in the near future.

Actually that's the next section of track that they in negotiations to purchase. The question is how much of it can they buy. At a minimal up to 9th line, mile 19.3 - between the Clarkson & Oakville stations. Since CN's Oakville yard begins just west of that point and they may wnat to retain the main line leading up to it. Or at a maximum Burlington West, mile 32.2 - just west of Burlington station. Where CN's busy Halton sub connects to the Oakville, something they'd never sell. There's space for more tracks west of that point so I'd have to believe that one day GO will build exclusive trackage for itself down to Hamilton, similar to the GO sub on the Lakeshore East (although there's been no official plan/word on such, that's just may guess)

Also, there is talk of GO talking over some dispatching duties on GO owned lines from CN as early as next year. Which means stuff like having to wait for a VIA at Durham jct for several minutes and being routed around a CN train switching mid day won't be happening.

 

[gweed123]

Does anyone have a map of all the different sub names within the GTA? I have a fairly good idea of where these are, but it would be nice to know exactly what the sub name is from where to where. Thanks.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I recently updated a system wide map;

(flickr compressed the image, was a lot more readable)

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Here's a less detailed, but clearer map;
Hope this helps

courtesy of the RAC but updated to reflect ownership as of Mar 31, 2011

 

[gweed123]

I recently updated a system wide map;


(flickr compressed the image, was a lot more readable)

Excellent, thank you!

 

[ShonTron]

Good work! Illustrates the updated ownership very well.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Looking at the map, is Orangeville in any future GO expansion plans? Seems like it (and Bolton which is planned) is the only N-S line that does not have GO service.