GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Northern Light]

The Bowmanville extension will be something like 5 peak trains a day. Thats less than whats already allowed on the Milton Line. So the precedent has already been set.

What CP doesnt want is some express, electrified all day service in their corridor, which is what the discussion is about.

I believe the HFR plan will find CP to be hard to deal with, and will do something like route the VIA trains down the Stouffville Line with a connection to the Peterborough sub.

The Peterborough sub is expected to be outright bought by VIA, so that is a similar solution to the missing link in Toronto with Metrolinx.

Bomanville is pegged for 2-way, All-day, last I heard.

Though likely at a much lower level that the core of LSE, maybe hourly.

 

[robmausser]

Bomanville is pegged for 2-way, All-day, last I heard.

Though likely at a much lower level that the core of LSE, maybe hourly.

That was a recent report from Metrolinx stating that the extension is set for peak service only, but they want and are investigating all day service.

But I wouldn't hold your breath about it.

 

[Allandale25]

Given the discussion on the Milton Line, the Missing Link, the CN York Sub, and HFR, I thought this article was timely.

CP says proposal for passenger rail between Calgary and Banff can't affect its business

“CP is unable to consider a proposal to co-locate a passenger rail service on our property unless it can be demonstrated that a segregated passenger operation can be built on adjacent infrastructure without interfering with CP’s freight capacity, or restricting the physical space required to...

www.rmotoday.com

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

I like it, for the very long term.

It's not inconceivable that, with the right assumptions about rolling stock, the line could be tunneled from east of Cooksville, up to Mississauga Center, and then continue west along, say, Burnhamthorpe or 403, to rejoin the ROW around Erindale. It would not be cheap, but I suspect the business case would be pretty decent, especially with a 1- or 2 stop semi express from MC to Union.

I wonder though how Mississauga would feel about that compared to, say, LRT from Kipling Line 2 to MC via Cooksville. For a generation or so, it might be cheaper to build that along with enough track to establish a basic 2WAD RER to Milton. It's hard to reconcile building a full heavy rail transit line against the current view that BRT is all that's needed for the next couple of decades.

The business case for getting CP out of the center of Toronto needs a good full foundation study independent of the Milton Line. It could lead to a Network Rail solution, or a P3, perhaps with the railways holding some equity. It would be tragic to underestimate how important it is to have good cross-GTA freight pathways that have capacity for the next 100 years. And, options for cross city transit on that ROW need their own full consideration. Improving the Milton line is only one bit of that. I'm sure the bypass will happen, but it will be as transformational, and as expensive/complicated, as London's Crossrail. We should give it time to breathe....better Milton service may not be able to wait for that.

- Paul

The Dundas BRT is also about it being much easier to have it span a very long stretch of Dundas, with multiple transit agencies operating along it.

If Greyhound disappears (which it might) the Highway 7 corridor between Guelph and Kitchener magically opens up. It's also technically possible for GO to start up a Aldershot-Guelph route right now. There's also nothing stopping GO from operating a DMU shuttle between the two cities once track capacity is improved, as Metrolinx already owns the corridor now.

If I were in charge, I'd buy up all intraprovincial bus routes not already held by GO or Northland and redesign and expand the entire intercity bus network, with a mix of owned/operated core routes, contracted secondary routes (with a guaranteed subsidy), and municipally-coordinated connections where they already exist (Simcoe County, Norfolk County, Chatham-Kent, etc.), connecting with GO and VIA where appropriate.

Greyhound might be willing to surrender it's routes, if it can do the contracted secondary routes, provided they make at least as much money in the new setup

 

[smallspy]

The corridor is owned by CP, and like I said earlier, all work has to be done by CP. Metrolinx has been scolded in the past for being burned by CP for capital works projects, and they are hesitant to continue to do so.

Metrolinx under fire for CN, CP deals

Transit agency’s seen as being in weak bargaining position, but auditor general’s report not alone in criticism.

www.thestar.com

CP doesnt want to do the work and will charge a premium, PLUS, any trackage laid while the corridor is owned by CP, CP gets to use for their freight trains, just like what happened with VIA and CN.

And how is that any different than the work that GO paid CN to do - only for CN to own those tracks?

It should be noted that Metrolinx is STILL paying for CN to do improvements on their own tracks today, in places like Hamilton and Richmond Hill.

There was work planned for more tracks in the CP corridor but it has stalled for the above reasons.

The only work that has been "stalled" as you call it is the EAs that haven't happened. It should also be noted that in the past couple of years GO paid for track improvements in the Kipling Station area.

Dan

 

[WillTo]

In support of the local tourism industry, I did some non-essential travel to Niagara Falls.
As you know, all train service to Niagara Falls is cancelled so it is a matter of taking the train to Burlington, then a 1.5hr bus ride along the QEW.

Well, it turned out on that Friday afternoon many other people (including large families) had the same idea and there was a good 40 or so people waiting to board at Burlington. Eeepp. We would have all fit but no chance of physical distancing.
Fortunately there was a second bus on standby and all those going to NF were instructed to board that one. That was most of the group. The regular bus would do the milk run going to Grimsby, St. Catharines etc.
The majority of people were going to NF but since there were large groups that didn't mind sitting next to each other, there was space between the parties. Also everyone was wearing masks. On the downside, people felt it was OK to take off their masks once the bus got going. . On the plus side, that 1.5hr journey became a 1hr express ride.

The return journey on Saturday was the usual schedule. At Burlington however, I noticed there was once again a decent crowd trying to board for Niagara Falls and they seemed to be deploying 2 buses. But there seemed to be more bike than there were racks.

Check out the destination sign!

 

[Richard White]

In support of the local tourism industry, I did some non-essential travel to Niagara Falls.
As you know, all train service to Niagara Falls is cancelled so it is a matter of taking the train to Burlington, then a 1.5hr bus ride along the QEW.
View attachment 258049
Well, it turned out on that Friday afternoon many other people (including large families) had the same idea and there was a good 40 or so people waiting to board at Burlington. Eeepp. We would have all fit but no chance of physical distancing.
Fortunately there was a second bus on standby and all those going to NF were instructed to board that one. That was most of the group. The regular bus would do the milk run going to Grimsby, St. Catharines etc.
The majority of people were going to NF but since there were large groups that didn't mind sitting next to each other, there was space between the parties. Also everyone was wearing masks. On the downside, people felt it was OK to take off their masks once the bus got going. . On the plus side, that 1.5hr journey became a 1hr express ride.

The return journey on Saturday was the usual schedule. At Burlington however, I noticed there was once again a decent crowd trying to board for Niagara Falls and they seemed to be deploying 2 buses. But there seemed to be more bike than there were racks.
View attachment 258050

Check out the destination sign!

View attachment 258051View attachment 258053

I wonder if restoring GO train service to Niagara might be worth while. Yes there is a pandemic but it would give people the opportunity to unwind a bit.

 

[anb]

In support of the local tourism industry, I did some non-essential travel to Niagara Falls.
As you know, all train service to Niagara Falls is cancelled so it is a matter of taking the train to Burlington, then a 1.5hr bus ride along the QEW.
View attachment 258049
Well, it turned out on that Friday afternoon many other people (including large families) had the same idea and there was a good 40 or so people waiting to board at Burlington. Eeepp. We would have all fit but no chance of physical distancing.
Fortunately there was a second bus on standby and all those going to NF were instructed to board that one. That was most of the group. The regular bus would do the milk run going to Grimsby, St. Catharines etc.
The majority of people were going to NF but since there were large groups that didn't mind sitting next to each other, there was space between the parties. Also everyone was wearing masks. On the downside, people felt it was OK to take off their masks once the bus got going. . On the plus side, that 1.5hr journey became a 1hr express ride.

The return journey on Saturday was the usual schedule. At Burlington however, I noticed there was once again a decent crowd trying to board for Niagara Falls and they seemed to be deploying 2 buses. But there seemed to be more bike than there were racks.
View attachment 258050

Check out the destination sign!

View attachment 258051View attachment 258053

That looks like such amazing ridership! Hopefully train service can return so we shouldn’t have to worry about overcapacity for bikes and people in general

 

[WillTo]

I wonder if restoring GO train service to Niagara might be worth while. Yes there is a pandemic but it would give people the opportunity to unwind a bit.

The price was right.

 

[PinkLucy]

The QEW Niagara bound was extremely busy this weekend, so I think a lot of people had a similar idea

 

[Richard White]

The QEW Niagara bound was extremely busy this weekend, so I think a lot of people had a similar idea

I thought about going out there but it is insane sometimes. I went last year and it was wall to wall people. The GO train was crammed and the falls area was packed so tight you could not walk anywhere without brushing up against someone.

Now see... if there was a GO train to Ottawa that would be worth every penny.

 

[drum118]

The Bowmanville extension will be something like 5 peak trains a day. Thats less than whats already allowed on the Milton Line. So the precedent has already been set.

What CP doesnt want is some express, electrified all day service in their corridor, which is what the discussion is about.

I believe the HFR plan will find CP to be hard to deal with, and will do something like route the VIA trains down the Stouffville Line with a connection to the Peterborough sub.

The Peterborough sub is expected to be outright bought by VIA, so that is a similar solution to the missing link in Toronto with Metrolinx.

Given the fact that the Milton Line was to be 3 tracks by 2011 to allow all day service to Meadowvale GO Station, it hasn't been completed for unknown reasons. The 3rd track bridge was built over Cawthra Rd around 2008 as well 3 sections where the 3rd track exist. The Lisgar Station was built as a centre platform and the City was prepared to grade separate 9th line.

Under Wynne 2014 election platform, the Milton Line was to be 4 tracks by 2021 at a cost of about $2.1 Billion and die after the election.

As for the Missing Link which is not, CN and CP will not be using the same lines or tracks unless CN upgrades its line to 4 tracks that will cost a hell lot more money than 4 tracking the Milton Line. Even local areas along the CN Line don't support CN/CP running service there.

I looked at running service to Mississauga Core close to a decade ago and could be done that it will miss Cooksville GO Station. There are 2 options with CP not open to one option at this time.

Option 1: Run Tram-Train that will leave CP Line east of Hurontario that would connect to Hurontario LRT Line and Mississauga Core. You would built the line over the 403 and use the ROW to connect to CP north of the 403. Cheapest and fastest of the 2 options.

Option 2: Similar to Option 1, but 100% tunnel. The tunnel would start just north of Dundas St E. Vary costly to do and take over a decade to do it Where it will connect to CP line on the north side of the 403 will have an impact to the curves for Mississauga Rd

To 3 or 4 track Streetsville have a number of major issues. The first one would require major exportation of land, closing off streets and building new ones for Mississauga Rd Grade Separation with supper curves.

Does the Mill remain or is it relocated? Prefer to see the Mill remain.

Easy to Grade Separate Thomas St, but various residents may have to go since they would be lacking driveways after the work is done. Can be a fly over or underpass. A fly over the prefer option.

What of the other 2 streets that currently cross CP tracks as to which is close and which is grade separated with lost of buildings?? Both streets can be close that will force a longer drive, but a pedestrian tunnel require for both streets.

What happens to CP Streetsville yard??

 

[smallspy]

Given the fact that the Milton Line was to be 3 tracks by 2011 to allow all day service to Meadowvale GO Station, it hasn't been completed for unknown reasons. The 3rd track bridge was built over Cawthra Rd around 2008 as well 3 sections where the 3rd track exist. The Lisgar Station was built as a centre platform and the City was prepared to grade separate 9th line.

Unknown reasons???

How about the fact that there was no EA completed. No engineering done. No budget allocated. Are those good enough reasons? Whatever plans that existed for that much additional track never got much futher than the back of the envelope.

All of the work that GO has paid CP to do in the past 20 years - and don't kid yourself, there is a large amount of money that has been spent, but also a correspondinginly large amount of work that has been done as well - has been done in such a way as to either not require an EA, or only a partial in the case of the new yard.

Dan

 

[robmausser]

Given the fact that the Milton Line was to be 3 tracks by 2011 to allow all day service to Meadowvale GO Station, it hasn't been completed for unknown reasons.

From what i've heard, its because CP needs to build the tracks in their corridor, and they and Metrolinx could not come to an agreement on price and service levels (CP wanted to use the tracks for their trains as well)

 

[Haydenpoon]

On the plus side, that 1.5hr journey became a 1hr express ride.

The trip to Niagara is horribly slow by bus than by a car. Good that they added an express one temporary.