GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[RedRocket191]

Oh sorry hwy7, I thought your problem was with trains.

So the corridor isn't double tracked 'till Bramlea? I was under the impression that there was more than enough track 'till then. When does the double track stop currently?

Due to construction at West Toronto it is double track to CN Parkdale (approximately Dufferin Street). Previously, it was double track to CN Keele (approximately St. Clair West). There is a passing siding between CN Woodbine East and CN Woodbine West, near the race track that can be used easily. It used to be used daily when the joint VIA Rail - Amtrak "International" ran from Toronto to Chicago via Sarnia.

From CN Halwest (approximately Bramalea GO), the line is at least double (and sometimes triple) all the way to Georgetown - except for the bridge over the Credit.

 

[TOareaFan]

Maybe I don't understand but this is what I am reading (please correct me if I am wrong).

For years GO has been saying that they couldn't extend the "extra trains" that go to Bramalea because of the sections of single tracking between Bramalea and Brampton.

Then that gets fixed and the answer (not directly from GO but from a poster here that seemed to be "in the know") is that the trains would not be extended to Brampton/Mount Pleasant until the platform work at Brampton was complete.

Now it is 2015?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

 

[rbt]

^^ Remember that they have enough trains to run every half an hour (sometimes more) on every line during rush hour. So they should have enough trains to support all lines for a train every half an hour.

Rush hour is essentially a single direction. 30 minute bidirectional service is roughly double.

Minor maintenance might also take place during the mid-day which may take trainsets out of service for brief periods; so maintenance spare count may need to be raised.

That said, they probably have enough on order to cover hourly all day service or better.

 

[RedRocket191]

Maybe I don't understand but this is what I am reading (please correct me if I am wrong).

For years GO has been saying that they couldn't extend the "extra trains" that go to Bramalea because of the sections of single tracking between Bramalea and Brampton.

Then that gets fixed and the answer (not directly from GO but from a poster here that seemed to be "in the know") is that the trains would not be extended to Brampton/Mount Pleasant until the platform work at Brampton was complete.

Now it is 2015?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

HOURLY service will not be possible until the West Toronto diamond construction is complete, and the Georgetown south expansion is complete. The construction will be too disruptive and hourly trains will not be able to stay on schedule.

The trains that currently terminate at Bramalea will be extended in a few months.

So in a nuthsell, yes, you are reading this wrong.

 

[TOareaFan]

HOURLY service will not be possible until the West Toronto diamond construction is complete, and the Georgetown south expansion is complete. The construction will be too disruptive and hourly trains will not be able to stay on schedule.

The trains that currently terminate at Bramalea will be extended in a few months.

So in a nuthsell, yes, you are reading this wrong.

Happy to be wrong Just looking for that 6:45 pm train to make it through!

 

[RedRocket191]

Happy to be wrong Just looking for that 6:45 pm train to make it through!

You and me both!

 

[TOareaFan]

You and me both!

I have said it before but.....I think GO will be pleasantly surprised on what that alone will do for ridership.

I live, roughly, equi-distant from Brampton and Mount Pleasant...my next door neighbour rides the GO every day but drives to Bramalea (significantly further) simply because she works late most nights and cannot tolerate that transfer to bus and longer journey (longer than it need be) on the 6:45.

I think people (on subjects like this) fall into 3 categories

1. ride the route as planned and complain about it (me)
2. find an alternate solution (my neighbour)
3. just avoid the whole transit thing

I am betting that there are more 3s than 2s and more 2s than 1s and that once people realize that they can take GO downtown and back using trains in either direction you will see an increase in ridership....a fairly significant one (as long as they tell people, loudly, about the increased service).

If I were GO, I would be doing this increase now but holding back on advertising it until the new platform was ready. That way they introduce it during a fairly quiet time of the year, work out any kinks in the service/schedule that might arise (not sure what those would be but you never know) and then a PR blitz once the platforms are ready.

 

[RedRocket191]

If I were GO, I would be doing this increase now but holding back on advertising it until the new platform was ready. That way they introduce it during a fairly quiet time of the year, work out any kinks in the service/schedule that might arise (not sure what those would be but you never know) and then a PR blitz once the platforms are ready.

But that's the issue at hand. The flexibility that the new platform offers is what will allow the extension to go through. Once completed, the eastbound track and westbound track will flow like two one-way streets, rather than have trains cross over and tie up the entire line. In essence, they can't do anything until the new platform is ready.

 

[TOareaFan]

But that's the issue at hand. The flexibility that the new platform offers is what will allow the extension to go through. Once completed, the eastbound track and westbound track will flow like two one-way streets, rather than have trains cross over and tie up the entire line. In essence, they can't do anything until the new platform is ready.

If that is true...I understand it.

What I heard previously, though, made no sense. Someone had written that the south track (with the new platform) would be where all the GO trains ran (in either direction) and all the freight trains (and presumably VIA) would stay on the north track.

If that were the case (and if that were the long term goal) it did not make sense to delay the implementation.....until the platform is/was ready you could just reverse it (ie. freight on the south and GO/VIA on the north) until the platform was built.

Even if the plan is to go to two one-way tracks.....could no compromise/interim step (like the one above) be done? Just seems, sometimes, like the thinking is all a bit too linear. Ah well, GO are still saying the platform will be ready in February so not much longer now until the 6:45 goes all the way through!

 

[Platform 27]

Re: the 2015 date

I believe the "no new service 'til 2015" line came from Robert Pritchard in response to a media question about the Georgetown South improvements in the context of criticism from the Clean Trains/Weston Coalition. I took that to mean that the big ramp-ups in train frequencies that would be coming about on that line once there was extensive multitracking and a spur to Pearson wouldn't be happening in a gradual process starting in 2009, but rather that they would begin to climb upon the completion of all the Georgetown South infrastructure work in 2015--the new trackwork, the Weston tunnel, the various remaining grade separations.

Georgetown North has always been conceived of as a standalone (but related) project, so even if one of the outcomes of extending daily trips to Mt. Pleasant is a notional increase in the number of trains rolling through Weston, I don't think Pritchard was really thinking about it--indeed, it's worth remembering Georgetown North was long since paid-for and underway when Pritchard came onboard. I have a sense that in the context of this whole Georgetown South kerfuffle, Georgetown North being completed but Georgetown South not being (i.e. the state of play in summer 2010) has been generally taken to be the "base case" in Metrolinx's assumptions.

Anyway, back to said trains. Right now the schedule shows the all-stops running time from Mt. Pleasant to Union as 53 minutes, but I gather that number's been padded pretty generously of late to ensure any hangups moving through West Toronto Junction don't lead to extra delays.

If daytime service were to be moved up to two trainsets once the runs are extended, does anyone know if GO could maintain an hourly schedule? What are the bare minimums for turnaround time at each end of the line?

 

[TOareaFan]

Re: the 2015 date

I believe the "no new service 'til 2015" line came from Robert Pritchard in response to a media question about the Georgetown South improvements in the context of criticism from the Clean Trains/Weston Coalition. I took that to mean that the big ramp-ups in train frequencies that would be coming about on that line once there was extensive multitracking and a spur to Pearson wouldn't be happening in a gradual process starting in 2009, but rather that they would begin to climb upon the completion of all the Georgetown South infrastructure work in 2015--the new trackwork, the Weston tunnel, the various remaining grade separations.

Georgetown North has always been conceived of as a standalone (but related) project, so even if one of the outcomes of extending daily trips to Mt. Pleasant is a notional increase in the number of trains rolling through Weston,

The trains that currently reach Bramalea do, by definition, go through Weston already so extending them to Brampton/Mount Pleasant would not be any increase in the trains going through Weston or any part of the southern end of the corridor.

So, I guess, everyone is right. More trains to Brampton in 2010 but no more trains on the line until 2015 (still a bit sad but no where near as sad if the current trains still stopped at Bramalea).

 

[Platform 27]

The trains that currently reach Bramalea do, by definition, go through Weston already so extending them to Brampton/Mount Pleasant would not be any increase in the trains going through Weston or any part of the southern end of the corridor.

So, I guess, everyone is right. More trains to Brampton in 2010 but no more trains on the line until 2015 (still a bit sad but no where near as sad if the current trains still stopped at Bramalea).

Right, but if they allocate a second trainset to the midday service so as to make the headway between trips shorter than they are now, rather than leaving it at one trainset and have longer headways, then it does undeniably constitute more trains through Weston. Just more trains through Weston in an manner unrelated to the Georgetown South project.

For what it's worth, I have a hunch they'll kick it up to two trains. All the passing track work on the Barrie line and Stouffville line was to allow for two trains being allocated to each during the day, so surely the longer-standing line will also merit that level of service.

 

[Platform 27]

Due to construction at West Toronto it is double track to CN Parkdale (approximately Dufferin Street). Previously, it was double track to CN Keele (approximately St. Clair West). There is a passing siding between CN Woodbine East and CN Woodbine West, near the race track that can be used easily. It used to be used daily when the joint VIA Rail - Amtrak "International" ran from Toronto to Chicago via Sarnia.

From CN Halwest (approximately Bramalea GO), the line is at least double (and sometimes triple) all the way to Georgetown - except for the bridge over the Credit.

I'm pretty sure the various Georgetown North works projects have meant this is now quite different.

Right now, GO is constrained to a single line from the Junction to Etobicoke North GO station, where there's only platform access to a single track on the south side. (There's a second track that begins just east of the Etobicoke North station, but it doesn't abut a platform. It's hard to tell from the satellite photo, but for the next few miles that track may in fact lack a north-to-south switch that allows westbound trains to later get off it before it eventually veers off at Halwest towards MacMillan Yard, so that would make it totally useless to GO, despite the fact they now own it.)

Anyway, immediately west of Etobicoke North station past Kipling, there's a new (third) track to the south of the existing one. From then on, there are three tracks the rest of the way to Halwest, with the southern two available for GO service.

 

[Komiksulo]

I'm pretty sure the various Georgetown North works projects have meant this is now quite different.

Right now, GO is constrained to a single line from the Junction to Etobicoke North GO station, where there's only platform access to a single track on the south side. (There's a second track that begins just east of the Etobicoke North station, but it doesn't abut a platform. It's hard to tell from the satellite photo, but for the next few miles that track may in fact lack a north-to-south switch that allows westbound trains to later get off it before it eventually veers off at Halwest towards MacMillan Yard, so that would make it totally useless to GO, despite the fact they now own it.)

Anyway, immediately west of Etobicoke North station past Kipling, there's a new (third) track to the south of the existing one. From then on, there are three tracks the rest of the way to Halwest, with the southern two available for GO service.

Interesting. It looks like there's enough bridge width for three tracks just west of Etobicoke North, but the platform would have to be shifted south for the third track. Then, if a north-side platform was added, that spur track would have to be moved, or the plarform built further to the west and bridged over Kipling Ave.

But then, that's probably a good idea anyways. There are too many places in the GO system where stations could have been built just a little distance away from their existing locations, bridged over main roads, and made easily connectable to transit on those main roads. Meadowvale, I'm looking at you.

A little further east, it gets interesting. It looks like the north track dead-ends just east of the Islington overpass; you can see the roadbed for the tracks that served whatever industry was there. Beyond that, it's single track all the way to the Weston corridor. It looks like the bridges and embankments would have to be widened there as well.

The real obstacle for a third track? Going under the 401. It looks like the tunnel there is only two tracks wide.

 

[canarob]

Slightly off-topic, but the new 2008-09 annual report is on GO's website, but it doesn't break ridership down by line as they've done in previous years. It just gives an overall number for 2008 of 55 milllion (it was 50 million in 2007, so that's decent overall growth).

http://www.gotransit.com/PUBLIC/en/publications/Annual Report0809_ENG_web.pdf

Anyone know where I might find this information?